• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

Puzzling about engine alignment, motor mounts, engine weight in rough seas

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi,
My engine alignment was good in spring, but I've sailed in rough seas this summer, and recently found the engine alignment quite off, varying by about 005 rather than the usual 002 or less.
I'm wondering if the rough sailing conditions caused the motor to move slightly with heeling, bouncing in waves, etc. The motor weighs about 345 lbs. and just sits on the motor mounts with nothing really holding it in place. How would it even be possible to maintain good engine alignment?
I would welcome any insights.
Frank
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
How old are the mounts? The rubber compound does lose its density as it ages -- my last set for the former Universal had settled to the point that one was down to metal-on-metal.
IMHO, they are one of the rubber compound items like hoses and impellers that have a designed in lifespan. It's likely a long time, having said that....
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
I struggled with engine alignment issues on my new to me 30+ this season. I have come to the conclusion that the mounts are not very good due to a few design issues/flaws imo. My engine is mounted on 3 mounts, 1 at front center and 1 on each side of the engine. The first issue is the single mount in front, needs a wider stance with 2 mounts to help with engine vibration which leads to engine shifting out of alignment. The mounts themselves are just screwed into wood with lag screws that will never hold the engine in alignment for any predictable time frame. Lastly the mounts themselves are very primitive and trying to adjust and lock in a precise alignment, well you can't. All that being said I'm thinking the way to go is a flexible coupling which will reduce vibration, prolong the life of the shaft, shaft seal, & cutlass bearing. Plus your alignment tolerance window is huge by comparison. My car has flexible couplings on both driveshafts and never had any issues (knocking on wood) so I would think the low HP and RPM we are dealing with is a no brainer.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Thanks, Guys. I'm guessing the mounts are original, not metal on metal, but likely hardened a bit, though they don't feel like it. I'm sure the three mount system and the lag screws are a contributing factor as well. Unfortunately with a PSS shaft seal there isn't room for a flexible coupler.
I have been successful in getting the alignment to .002 and this last time even to .000 on all four coupler faces.
I'm puzzled though, thinking that the next time I encounter rough waters, the engine will bounce around, messing with my good alignment. I would think there should be a metal strap from one side across the top of the engine to the other side to hold it tightly in place, on its rubber mounts. Why isn't that done?
Frank
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
There must have been thousands of Ericson's with that 3-mount system installed, and I wonder what the original thinking was behind the idea.
(Our boat uses the more-common four mount system for the same Universal diesels.)

There are previous engine mounting threads, and here is just one:
 
Last edited:

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
For what it's worth, the original three mounts on my diesel seem to hold it in place fine. No doubt the rubber has lost its bounce, but no problems. Yet....

engine mount universal 5432 diesel 2020 2 .jpg
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
I hear you on the space issue and I was wondering if that will be a problem as I have the same setup. I think the only other answer is to redesign the whole system with mounts that will lock in place. The current ones just slide in slots held down by lag screws. It's a pain to align and then it won't stay that way for long. Need to have fixed mounts that will adjust horizontally via a threaded lockable shaft. The horizontal alignment is my issue as I'm guessing the mounts just slide in the slots from vibration and a 350lb weight being slung around on top of them.
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
The 5416 is not the smoothest engine I've encountered, in fact at certain RPMs it will shake things pretty good in neutral. Don't think you could strap across the top of the engine as that would probably just rip the lag bolts right out.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Depending on the amount of space you have between the bed log surface and the mounting plates for the present adjustable mounts, I wonder if you could place an aluminum flat bar on each mount and first bolt it down and then install the (new) mounts into machine screw threaded holes in that bar. That is what we did when we changed engines.
The original factory installation on our boat had the mounts lag bolted down thru FRP riser block that were over an inch tall. And, yes they did have to be re-torqued every year. And, EY had put some oak underneath.
Note that ours also needed a sloped piece of FRP under each flat bar to get the correct angle. (Factory install had taller spacer blocks under the front mounts than under the rear mounts.)
 
Last edited:

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
Yep Loren that's what needed for sure. Now just have to figure out how to mount a 15" ish plate on the front of the engine to enable 2 front mount positions.
 

JSM

Member III
Had a similar situation my our 34-2 a few years ago. I found that after changing the original motor mounts some of the lag screws would not tighten , they just wanted to spin in their holes. My engine was also mounted on three mounts and the fiberglass that the front mount screwed into was striped as well making it impossible to keep the engine aligned with the shaft.
I welded nuts to the bottom of some 1/8" steel plate and drilled out the old holes in the engine bearers to accommodate the nuts. The steel plates were then lagged into the bearers. The motor mounts are now held in place with machine bolts. NO MORE STRIPED HOLES.
For the front mounts I fabricated new bearers out of 3" square steel tubing and angle iron which was drilled and tapped to accept machine bolts for the mounts and used the "ears" on the existing bracket (part#29)
Luckily I just had to disconnect the exhaust hose and the fuel line and lift the engine with a cheap chain hoist from Harbor Freight which was hung from a beam across the companion way. The chain hoist will give you almost infinite vertical control of the engine and I was able to get the job done in an afternoon by myself.
The front center mount in pic has since been removed , the alignment is holding and my vibration has been greatly reduced
 

Attachments

  • 4 mounts (2).jpg
    4 mounts (2).jpg
    629.3 KB · Views: 41

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
Very nice work John. Definitely need to do something similar as the original design is almost laughable. I would like to incorporate a positive horizontal/lateral adjustment so you can actually fine tune and don't need to rely on a long lever to slide the mounts. May just need to add a couple of "L" plates with a threaded rod or bolt on the side with most clearance. It would be great to just loosen the mount bolts and slide the engine back and forth with a socket and ratchet. Yours and Loren's mods are a HUGE improvement over the factory design so needs to be my first step for sure. I'm guessing your original setup just had the 3 mounts ? Also curious what brand and type mounts those are ?
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
I have looked at those on line but have yet to find any real reviews. They're a little pricey($600 for the SD55) but they also will fit in tight places and seem to be well engineered. They claim to be very forgiving on alignment tolerances up to + or - 3 degrees which is a real plus too. Unfortunately they are not widely available so can't really get one in your hands and look at it. They're made by a propeller company in England so I would think they have a good handle on the application of a marine product.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
FWIW, some years ago I carefully measured the clearance from coupler to stuffing box. I had nowhere near the amount of room a CV Joint would need, altho I thought it was (and still think it is) a good idea. A friend with an E-34 came to a similar conclusion.
Now, if you have an '86 E-38-200 with engine under the galley, this might be lots more do-able.
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
The Sigmadrive appears to replace the coupler entirely and bolts direct to transmission and the shaft goes into the drive unit. I don't think it adds more than an inch to the total length. I am waiting on an inquiry regarding tolerances as I have minimal space too.
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
So I just got a call from Geoff at AB Marine and he claims it doesn't add any length to the driveline as it indeed takes the place of the coupler and the shaft goes into it just like the coupler. He is supposed to send me some docs so when he emails those I'll try and post them here.
 

JSM

Member III
Dave G. said:
I'm guessing your original setup just had the 3 mounts ? Also curious what brand and type mounts those are ?
Thanks Dave. The original set up was the three point mount. I had looked into having new brackets fabricated for the front mounts but after seeing the parts diagram for the engine (linked above) and seeing that the bracket used for the front mount is called a 3 to 4 point conversion bracket I decided to leave it in place.
I check the alignment after launching every spring and it has remained rock solid for the past three seasons.
The mounts are Vetus K Type purchased from Defender.com
 

Attachments

  • 20201001_133939.jpg
    20201001_133939.jpg
    157.8 KB · Views: 20

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
Attached is the SigmaDrive Brochure. It does have some dimensional info but if interested I would contact AB Marine, https://www.ab-marine.com
I think for most of us the model would be the SD55. I first have to reengineer my motor mounts....
 

Attachments

  • SigmaDrive.pdf
    719.7 KB · Views: 6

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Dave G, I did the 3 to 4 mount conversion with a plate at the front. This did wonders for vibrations on my boat and seems very secure. Additional vibration reduction was achieved with a smaller Campbell Sailor prop.

 
Top