1988 E 38-2-- Engine Type

[Kerry Kukucha]

Hello All:

This may seem like a dumb question, but I'm not sure what type of engine we have. The mechanical survey we had done when we purchased the boat a few months ago indicated we had a 32hp, 4 cylinder Universal 5432.

Someone recently suggested that Ericson in the mid/late 1980's changed over to an M-40 Universal. This has bearing on trying to resolve a problem we have where diesel fuel (15% as analyzed) is getting into the oil system.

The 5432 apprently has a low pressure , oil cooled mechanical fuel pump with a diaphragm that could be the source. The M-40 has an electric pump that would accordingly point to the high pressure fuel injector pump as the diesel fuel leak source, which is also oil cooled (we do have an electric supply pump, upstream of the fuel filters, making me think we in fact have an M-40).

Any thoughts or comments would be very helpful.

regards,

Kerry

 

[chaco]

www.westerbeke.com

All the Historical Universal Information is in www.westerbeke.com\Products\
Model History or Older Model Literature.
Follow the fuel line connection to your engine. It will either end at a
mechanical fuel pump or at a direct connection to your injection pump.
Being that you have an electric lift pump that indicates you will MOST LIKELY
not have a mechanical pump on your engine.
Anything is possible on a boat :nerd:

Good Luck /) /)

 

[rwthomas1]

Try this:
Trace the fuel flow to the injection pump. The fuel line should come out of the tank and through the primary fuel filter, then through the lift pump, then through the secondary filter and then to the injection pump. There should be a return line from the injectors either back to the IP or directly to the fuel tank. If you have a mechanical fuel pump, sometimes called a lift pump, it should be obvious on the side of the engine block. That is where the diaphragm is that might be leaking fuel internally. It is also possible that there is an electric "lift" pump. It is possible to bypass the mechanical lift pump with an electric pump for testing purposes. A simple 12volt universal pump from Facet or Purolator will work just fine. The other possibility for the leak is the seal on the injection pump where the pump bolts onto the engine. If the seal is compromised it will leak internally.

Regarding if the engine is a 5432 or an M40 there may be an easy way to determine. Every 5432 I have seen in pics or for real has had a 3 point mount system. Two mounts at the rear/side of the engine and one in the front just under the crankshaft pulley. The M40's I have seen have a 4 point mount system. Just what I have noticed.

Hope this helps. RT

 

[Kerry Kukucha]

Dan / Rob:

Thanks for your input & help.

Actually went down & had a look at the engine & go figure - there was the "5432" model #stamped on the darn thing! Good to know about the 3 vs 4 motor mount points (mine has 3).

There is a Facet electric pump that feeds from the primary filter, on to the 2ndary, which in turn feeds directly to the Injector Pump, on it's top side (after the aft cylinder, there is a hose that returns to the tank). Conclusion - she's a 5432 with an electric lift pump.

As for the diesel leak, I hope it is only a seal - mechanic will be hopefully be able to have a look next week.

cheers,

Kerry

 

[rwthomas1]

Kerry,
If you have confirmed that there is no mechanical lift pump and the fuel lines only enter the IP, no other place on the engine then there is really only one seal that can leak fuel internally. The IP is a self contained unit, usually built by a different manufacturer than the engine itself. Bosch is probably the largest manufacturer in the world. That said the IP bolts to the engine and is indexed/rotated by the timing gears or chain. Thats where the leak will be, the seal where the IP shaft protrudes into the engine and the gear/sprocket mounts. Removing an IP is generally pretty straightforward. Shouldn't take more than a couple hours to remove. The IP should only be serviced by a qualified shop. They will be able to "run" the IP on test bench and replace the seal. Hopefully that is all thats wrong. RT

 

[hodo]

You might also have the injectors checked to see if they are dribbling fuel into the cylinders, and contaminating the oil when the fuel leaks past the rings. They are much easier to remove than the IP.Good Luck, Kerry, let us know what you find. Harold

 

[Kerry Kukucha]

Update

Perhaps this should be labeled Nakesa, the ongoing saga, or Kerry's Diesel education.........

So as a starting point, our mechanic also suggested testing the injectors, which turned out to be siezed up. He had then re-built & followed up with a sea trial - have just been advised that our existing prop installed by the previous owner was not only the wrong size (14/11) but also designed for a motor boat. This in part has probably contributed to the series of problems including diesel fuel diluting the engines oil, overheating, smoking, etc (mechanic just advised that we were topping out at 2100 rpm's rather than 2800).

We are now looking at installing a new a Campbell Sailor 15/9 or 16/8 as reccomended by westbynorth, who have serviced other E-38's. Hopefully, this will solve our problems, although I am still a bit concerned with diesel getting into the oil - we had the boat out Sunday & ran her for 6 hrs (with the old prop at 1800rpm's - no overheating but still a bit of smoke); a follow up oil test has now shown 4% diesl in the oil.

Nakesa is a 1988, 38-200 with a Universal 5432 & Hirth transmission. As we don't have the original 1988 manual/spec's, was wondering if anyone with the same model/year might be able to confirm if the gear ratio is 2:1 or 2.14:1 (would .04 make much of a difference?).

Thinking next steps will be the new prop, oil change, then run the engine some more (hopefully at around 2240 or 80% of 2800rpm's). Any thoughts or comments would as always, be greatly appreciated.

many thnx,

Kerry
Nakesa E38-200<!-- / message -->

 

[hodo]

Kerry, wow sounds like your education is more like a trial by fire! Glad to hear you are getting a handle on the problems. I don't think you will be able to tell the difference of .04. There might be some one out there with experiance. in that , but i would almost guess that the two are the same trans.. Power boat prop eh? should sail faster with out that. However, you probably wont be able to pull a water skier now.
Harold

 

[Emerald]

a follow up oil test has now shown 4% diesl in the oil.

Has anyone done a compression test on this engine? Just thinking if you had excessive ring wear aka blow by you could be getting fuel in the crankcase.

 

[bigtyme805]

Hi Kerry:

Transmission Reduction is HBW -10 2.1 14:1

Also here is a link to your engine manual it is in PDF format I am sure this will help for future projects.
http://www.ays.com/library/Universal_Manual_2.pdf

 

[rwthomas1]

Kerry,
Glad to hear you are working through the problem. I still think that to put the amount of fuel you had in the crankcase there would have to be a compromised seal in the IP. That said, keep working through the issues and see how it goes. If you would like a simple confirmation on the transmission ratio then try this: Place engine in gear. Mark prop shaft and have helper watch the mark. Depress decompression lever and rotate the engine carefully counting the revolutions. Have your helper count shaft revolutions. Simple estimating of the engine vs shaft count will confirm the ratio. RT