1989 Ericson 34 TAFG Cracked and Separated from Hull

[Kai]

Hello everybody, I am looking at taking on an Ericson 34-2 as a project. Overall the boat is in good condition and was well cared for by the previous owner. They owned the boat for about 20 years and cruised the coast of Maine every year with minimal issues. A few years ago they decided to sell the boat. When a prospective buyer came aboard he found that there was some major structural damage. The TAFG was cracked in one of the large transverse stringers in front of the engine. The sale fell through and the owners hired someone to pull the cabin sole up to figure out the extent of the damage. When the whole grid was exposed they found that the tabbing in the sections of the grid between the gally sink and nav station and a few feet forward of that had completely separated from the hull by about an inch. At that point the owners discovered their insurance would not cover the repairs so everything was stopped and the boat has been sitting for a few years.



From what I can figure out nobody knows exactly what caused the damage. The owners claim they never had a hard grounding while they owned the boat. A survey done after repairs were started did find evidence of a grounding in the bottom front of the keel but it is vey old and covered in several layers of bottom paint. The insurance company concluded that the damage existed from before the current owners bought the boat, hence why they would not cover the repairs. Another theory is that water got inside the boat at some point and froze, causing the cracking of the stringer and the separation of the TAFG from the hull. It is also interesting that I can not find any evidence of bulkheads or furniture shifting and getting pushed around, although the stringer has a clear hump in it. There is a slight separation of the head wall and the shower floor but that’s it.



If it was just the cracked stringer I would think the repair would be relatively straight forward to grind it out and re glass it. If the tabbing had simply delaminated from the hull I would grind everything down and re glass it. It’s the separation between the grid and the hull that’s the interesting part. There is no obvious deformity on the hull when I look at it from the outside and it is not clear that the cracked stringer is the complete cause of the separation either.



I am curious if you guys have any ideas of what could have caused this and weather you think a repair is possible/worth it. I know other brands of boats with structural grids have had issues with separation and cracking but I have never heard of it happening to an Ericson.



I have attached some photos that best show the damage. The red circles show where there is separation.



Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[Dave G.]

I'm not a expert or surveyor but in looking at those pics that boat has been in a severe impact of some sort IMHO. The pic that stands out to me is the stringer in front of the engine bay. That much deflection in 30" space is very telling in my mind. In combination with the other pics it looks like the structure is twisted/distorted. My personal opinion is that hull is not fixable but I've been wrong before.

 

[Loren Beach]

I mostly agree with Dave, based on the info at hand.
However, given that it's a well engineered fiberglass boat, the damage IS repairable, and I have witnessed much worse damage repaired "better than new".
It takes time, skill, and money. (As a site member here used to say: you just need two out out the three!)
Removing nearby furniture, grinding back all of the places to be re-tabbed, and probably templating the hull on both sides to see if it's fair and symmetrical.

For an amateur like me, it might take me six months to a year, once the boat is blocked up inside the shop. I know a guy that could do it in a couple of months, but he is a ship wright with decades of experience.

There are other boats around, and even if the right one (hopefully turn key) has to be trucked in, the cost of trucking is less than hiring out a major repair.

If the OP rummages around thru my blog entries for our complete re-fit, the effort needed for a structural repair can be better imagined.

Fair Winds,
Loren

 

[Christian Williams]

Yikes. I like the freeze theory. It's Maine. Rainwater collects between the compartments. Expansion forces components apart. Yikes again.

This would not be a project attractive to me. I do cosmetic surgery, not bone transplants.

 

[Jerry VB]

My armchair skippering says the boat (keel) went sideways into something (e.g. tossed by waves onto a beach or a rock). This put a significant rotational force on the keel which popped the grid loose. Note that the damage is only on the starboard side and is not at the front and rear of the keel which get damaged when you it a rock head on (reference Sure Shot part 1 and part 2).

 

[Kenneth K]

Overall the boat is in good condition....

Hmmm...

"But other than that Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"

 

[Christian Williams]

I enhanced the photos for better viewing. The pictures of my 1984 bilge show a continuous mat of glass for the tabbing. I'm not sure the method was the same for this later boat. Click to enlarge.

One way or another I consider this was a bad bond by the factory. Such bonds are supposed to hold till destruction, I would think. No?

......

1984 381 tabbing:

...

 

[Loren Beach]

Regarding only the tabbing question
--the tabbing attachments in our '88 Olson look solid like the ones in Christian's photos.

 

[Kai]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I like Loren's idea of templating the hull, I may do that before making a decision. If the hull is not symmetrical I don't think I want to try and push things back into place. I am lucky in that I would have a free place to store the boat, so time would not be an issue. In regards to Christian's comment about the continuous mat of tabbing; most of the other compartments formed by the grid have continuous tabbing as well. This makes me wonder if the areas that are seperated were repaired a while ago and have since failed.

 

[Pete the Cat]

I really would not be too concerned except for that stringer in the last picture. As someone who lives in Maine and who did $25K damage to my Tartan 37 by hitting a rock (in my own harbor where I was the harbor master, no less, and at 7k) I would tend to agree with Christian that this does not look like the impact from a rock if the keel bolts look more or less original in place (I can't see them) even though this is the place you would see the internal damage from a rock strike). Everyone hits rocks in Maine at some point so the keel bite does not necessarily suggest this is what happened. I like the idea of templating the hull, but I would note that most production boats are going to be a bit twisted from the factory--timing the removal from the mold is tricky to avoid this, factorys have schedules and most folks are not too fussy with an inch or two on a new boat. If the boat wintered in Maine, the yards there sometimes forget to close the hatches after removing the rig and sometimes the owners leave things ajar. I have seen ice damage, but never this much--but it could happen if the boat was in the cradle or on stands with the aft down a bit--many yards do not level the boats on stands or cradles--though they should so the water gets to a place it can be seen and pumped before the boat is covered. Seems like ice damage would be farther forward if the boat was level and full of water. I do seasonal work in yards in Maine and it is a madhouse in the Fall to get everything hauled and covered and owners "visiting" their yachts in the winter can be a problem. Sorry I can't be more definitive.
So the PO did not notice cracks in the wall and the bow in the cross member of the TAFG in 20 years? Seems like he might have noticed this when he bought the boat?? Was it surveyed then? Seems like there is something missing from the PO's story. The floor is removed==what did it look like? Water damaged?
I think the boat is repairable (look at the work the yard did on Sure Shot) and the big issue to me is the cross member in the TAFG. My 32-200 is grossly overbuilt IMHO and shares much of the same design and materials. I would not not much be concerned with the tabbing. I would be concerned about major cracks in the TAFG--on my boat that is 3/4" thick and + so it would take a lot of pressure to do that kind of damage. Seems like the hull would go first. The guys who built my boat slopped a lot of mat and roving to tab between the hull and the TAFG--there was little art to it, but it was massive cloth and resin. Tom on Sure Shot certainly has been deeper into this area on his boat and more experience with this--I would be interested in his take.

 

[southofvictor]

My money is on freezing water. Might not have deformed the hull if it was spread evenly enough and contacted enough interior surface. Would still have the strength to lift the TAFG off the hull. Interested to hear what else you find if you decide to keep moving forward.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Unless I missed it, I did not notice what sort of price you were proposing to pay for this fixer-upper.

 

[Dave G.]

I don't believe ice would bend and crack that stringer in the last couple of pics. Maybe it fell out of a sling or off the jacks ? I would like to see pictures from 25' looking straight at the bow and then straight at the stern. Have you inspected the hull to deck joint ?

 

[Kenneth K]

When the TAFG was first tabbed into place, both it and the hull were clean, dry, well-fitted, and debris free before tabbing began.

Short of stripping everything down to a bare hull, removing the TAFG, cleaning, repositioning and then re-tabbing, I don't know how you ever get back close to its original state. And while re-tabbing a cracked, misaligned or displaced TAFG (say there is debris stuck under areas where the old tabbing failed, or, simply dealing with the existing 1" displacement) might make you feel better, it does not restore the original structural integrity and seems likely this would be much more prone to future failure.

Possible to fix? Sure, but at some point it stops making sense from an economic perspective.

 

[bgary]

Possible to fix? Sure, but at some point it stops making sense from an economic perspective.

+1

Anything is fixable, it's just a function of time and money. And will.

 

[Bolo]

Many theories proposed as to what cause this sort of major damage (I do prefer the freezing one myself) but let me also suggest that maybe when the boat was hauled out one time it was done improperly or even accidentally dropped on its keel before the Jack stands were put in place. The reasons for the damage don’t really matter at this point. The question to be asked is do you want to spend most of your time sailing a boat or fixing it? Keep looking because buying a boat at a good price doesn’t always mean that it‘s a bargain.

 

[Puget sailor]

Having sailed a bit in Casco Bay, the rocks in Maine seem to be living creatures that sneak right up under you. Nothing like that feeling standing on the bow and suddenly seeing seaweed right below the surface when moments ago it looked bottomless. However, I find it hard to believe any sort of sailing keel impact would cause asymmetrical lifting of the grid.
My best theory is a crappy support job by a yard at some point, perhaps year after year at the same yard. Too much pressure on one part of hull from a jack stand started to separate the grid near an outboard edge of the grid where it’s less strong. Next season it gets a little worse. Or possibly that combined with ice, since our boats often leak from above? It’s not that hard to over extend a Jack stand and create some oil canning. Doing that right near the edge of the grid - it’s possible it could start the separation and then it spreads like a split in a piece of firewood. A few inches of separation, a little water under the flange that freezes hard and on it goes. Or it just fell over or was beached at some point. But then the damage should be more amidships. If it’s further aft, I’m suspecting bad jacking history as a starting point. Could be wrong for sure.

Regardless, if the proposed discount is substantial enough, I’d be thinking this:

Is the hull itself (not the counting the grid) solid and non-delaminated? A certain amount of impact flexing and it would just flex and return into place, and beyond that it might start to delaminate or crack. Perhaps a surveyor or any capable person could sense that by hammer tapping from below, see if there are any dead spots. If it’s been sailing and not leaking for a few years like this, it may be fine.

If the hull passes muster, it’s “just” a matter of cleaning out under the grid and getting it back into place. That could be done with pressure from above, or possibly even drilling a few strategic holes and through-bolting a timber above the grid to “clamp” it back down into position for rebonding. Some modern adhesives are downright amazing. So is epoxy, but harder to work with. A combination would be good.

You seem to have the will and a place to do the work, so that’s good. The remaining variables are confidence and value proposition. If it seems like you can make it solid enough to sail confidently, then that’s important. Regarding value, if you assume the boat will always be worth less due to the repair, let’s say 20-30%, and your input costs make that acceptable, then it could make sense. If it gets you into a boat you might not otherwise be able to swing, there is some sweat benefit here. But it’s a meaningful amount of effort. (and most likely not all that much actual materials cost assuming your own labor to fix and not a yard)

If it’s at a fire sale price, which to me is about half of what it’s worth without the damage or less, and you have skills and/or interest in giving it a go, then it might actually be a good opportunity to flex your muscles and enjoy the project. Of course I’d still be wondering about the rest of the boat. Rigging, sails, systems, deck core integrity, all that stuff, and how long has it been sitting - the usual cost gremlins. I’d also be wanting to really know that the keel connection is rock solid. All gets back to the confidence element. As it sits, the owners have a pretty weak hand. It’s costing them money to own, not appreciating, and not worth much. Think of it as an insurance sale, and price accordingly.

 

[Saverio]

from the photos it seems that the boat has fallen from the 4 feet of the reservoir and that the keel has returned. Equal damage in the square where boats are maintained here at my place. The boat is a Grand Soleil 40 that fell from 4 feet and the keel was violently slammed, the internal structural spider broke in various points, you couldn't see anything from the outside, everything falls into place, everything costs hours of work, I think the owner should understand the damage situation, he should give you the boat.

 

[Saverio]

free

 

[Alan Gomes]

It would probably be worth more parting it out.