32-2 Repacking the Rudder Stuffing Box
Maybe no one (yet) has an answer...
I do not believe that Ed's post was deleted. Here it is:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=4725&referrerid=28
As to the subject of rudder stuffing boxes, Ericsons and Olsons (like mine) have 'em, and I suspect that most us try to ignore it as long as possible.
They seem to go for years (decades?) without service, and more to the point they are in a part of our boats best accessed by energetic midgets.
I have made my slow way back into the stern sections of our boat for several projects, and each time I think about adjusting the stuffing box, I decide that another time might be better to try to futz with it!
On my boat, the radial drive for the cable steering is right on top of this bronze device. The "box" itself is tensioned with 3 or 4 (I forget the number at the moment) hex head bolts on lock washers to make them stay where you turn them to.
I have no leaks there, and have tightened and loosened those bolts a bit, several years ago, to see if that would make some of the friction in the steering system go away. It did not.
Perhaps someone here has some hands-on experience with this part of their Ericson or Olson. One other caveat: the box on the 32-2 and 32-3 may or may not be similar... what with a potential of a decade or more separating their production and factory sourcing of these parts.
Keep us posted, and if at all possible put up some pictures of the secretive little critter. I find that for that area of the boat, I have had good luck with photographs by proping a portable light in the area for ambient light, to give the camera autofocus something to "see." Then I reach in with my digital camera and take several shots with the flash.
There's a picture of mine, barely, in this steering-related thread--
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=3473&highlight=YS+cables
Best of luck,
Loren in Portland, OR
I do not believe that Ed's post was deleted. Here it is:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=4725&referrerid=28
As to the subject of rudder stuffing boxes, Ericsons and Olsons (like mine) have 'em, and I suspect that most us try to ignore it as long as possible.
They seem to go for years (decades?) without service, and more to the point they are in a part of our boats best accessed by energetic midgets.
I have made my slow way back into the stern sections of our boat for several projects, and each time I think about adjusting the stuffing box, I decide that another time might be better to try to futz with it!
On my boat, the radial drive for the cable steering is right on top of this bronze device. The "box" itself is tensioned with 3 or 4 (I forget the number at the moment) hex head bolts on lock washers to make them stay where you turn them to.
I have no leaks there, and have tightened and loosened those bolts a bit, several years ago, to see if that would make some of the friction in the steering system go away. It did not.
Perhaps someone here has some hands-on experience with this part of their Ericson or Olson. One other caveat: the box on the 32-2 and 32-3 may or may not be similar... what with a potential of a decade or more separating their production and factory sourcing of these parts.
Keep us posted, and if at all possible put up some pictures of the secretive little critter. I find that for that area of the boat, I have had good luck with photographs by proping a portable light in the area for ambient light, to give the camera autofocus something to "see." Then I reach in with my digital camera and take several shots with the flash.
There's a picture of mine, barely, in this steering-related thread--
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=3473&highlight=YS+cables
Best of luck,
Loren in Portland, OR
E32 Stuffing Box - Deleted Thread
Ed - On your post - I don't see anything either...just the post cited by Loren above, etc.
Just as an aside - when we 'delete' posts (duplicates or others) they are really only hidden from users - the moderators can see them - I'm the only one who can truly delete a post.
To date the only ones I've deleted were the porn spamming posts a couple of months ago...so you should be good. If you have further questions about this, please feel free to email me...
//sse
Ed - On your post - I don't see anything either...just the post cited by Loren above, etc.
Just as an aside - when we 'delete' posts (duplicates or others) they are really only hidden from users - the moderators can see them - I'm the only one who can truly delete a post.
To date the only ones I've deleted were the porn spamming posts a couple of months ago...so you should be good. If you have further questions about this, please feel free to email me...
//sse
ChrisS
Member III
I tried to adjust the box a few months ago--there are four bolts--but the friction was excessive and the leaking didn't stop. I get about a half gallon of water in the bilge after a hard sail. So tomorrow I plan on taking the fitting apart, digging out the old packing, and then repacking it. It's a small space, and I have large, ape-like hands, so we'll see how it goes; I've been meaning to take up yoga, anyway. If I have patience I will take photos and post them.
Hopefully, I won't have to mess with the quadrant, but I think I only have a couple of inches to work with once I get the stuffing box apart.
Hopefully, I won't have to mess with the quadrant, but I think I only have a couple of inches to work with once I get the stuffing box apart.
POst photos
Some of the boats you will have to remove the quadrant simply to get enough space to get the old packing out and the new packing in. Others have enough room to be able to accomplish it without removing the quadrants.
One of the issues is that on some boats, the quadrant is holding the rudder shaft in. Now normally this is not a big deal as the rudder SHOULD float. But sometimes it does not. I always like to verify what is holding the rudder in.
Note most of the Ericsons have a skeg, but not all of them. With the skeg underbody, the rudder is a bear to get out even when on the hard and working at taking it out.
However if you are unsure, best to tie a line through the bolt which is thru the shaft for the emergency tiller. This is located a the top of the rudder shaft normally just below the cockpit sole.
The other question is whether the top of the rudder tube is above the water line or not. If it is then remove the bolts, remove the plate, and replace the packing. If it is below the waterline, then you might want to think about pulling the boat out of the water before changing the packing. All that water rushing in is not going to make you calm when you are stuck in that little space. You should be able to make some measurements to verify that it is above the waterline.
Take photos of the install, and we can provide input.
Guy
Some of the boats you will have to remove the quadrant simply to get enough space to get the old packing out and the new packing in. Others have enough room to be able to accomplish it without removing the quadrants.
One of the issues is that on some boats, the quadrant is holding the rudder shaft in. Now normally this is not a big deal as the rudder SHOULD float. But sometimes it does not. I always like to verify what is holding the rudder in.
Note most of the Ericsons have a skeg, but not all of them. With the skeg underbody, the rudder is a bear to get out even when on the hard and working at taking it out.
However if you are unsure, best to tie a line through the bolt which is thru the shaft for the emergency tiller. This is located a the top of the rudder shaft normally just below the cockpit sole.
The other question is whether the top of the rudder tube is above the water line or not. If it is then remove the bolts, remove the plate, and replace the packing. If it is below the waterline, then you might want to think about pulling the boat out of the water before changing the packing. All that water rushing in is not going to make you calm when you are stuck in that little space. You should be able to make some measurements to verify that it is above the waterline.
Take photos of the install, and we can provide input.
Guy
Attachments
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rudder post 1.JPG -
rudder post 2.JPG -
SteeringWithStop reduced.jpg
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ChrisS
Member III
Guy--
Thanks for the reply. The stufing box is above the waterline, but I only have about 2" of room for stuffing box disassembly, so I may have to remove the quadrant--I'm not sure if this is straightforward.
I'm going to change the oil in my A-4 today, and will take a closer look at the stuffing box. I'll post photos if I think I need to remove the quadrant. I want a drier bilge, and am not planning to haul until next summer, so I'd like to take a shot at this soon.
Thanks,
Thanks for the reply. The stufing box is above the waterline, but I only have about 2" of room for stuffing box disassembly, so I may have to remove the quadrant--I'm not sure if this is straightforward.
I'm going to change the oil in my A-4 today, and will take a closer look at the stuffing box. I'll post photos if I think I need to remove the quadrant. I want a drier bilge, and am not planning to haul until next summer, so I'd like to take a shot at this soon.
Thanks,
ChrisS
Member III
So I ended up taking the quadrant apart, and repacking the stuffing box. Nothing went as expected. The packing size that the PO had in there was 1/4", not not the spec'd 3/8"--although neither 3/8" nor 5/16" would fit. The rudder shaft had some gouges in it. And the stuffing box required me to pack the rings of packing in the upward side, which was a bit strange to me (maybe it was installed upside down?). Still, I got it all together, mostly woking with one hand.
The strangest part of it all was that as I studied the green parts of the bronze quadrant, it seemed to me that the water is entering through the rudder shaft, where the through bolt holds the two parts of the quadrant together. Could this mean that water is going through the rudder and into the shaft? I threaded a length of wire down through the hole in the shaft towards the rudder, and when I brought it out it was wet and gunky looking.
I'll sea trial tomorrow, but the possible source of the water baffles me. Any ideas?
The strangest part of it all was that as I studied the green parts of the bronze quadrant, it seemed to me that the water is entering through the rudder shaft, where the through bolt holds the two parts of the quadrant together. Could this mean that water is going through the rudder and into the shaft? I threaded a length of wire down through the hole in the shaft towards the rudder, and when I brought it out it was wet and gunky looking.
I'll sea trial tomorrow, but the possible source of the water baffles me. Any ideas?
Up or Down?
The water in the rudder shaft could have come up through the rudder, which is definitely possible.
The other solution is that if could have come down from the top of the rudder shaft.
Guy
The water in the rudder shaft could have come up through the rudder, which is definitely possible.
The other solution is that if could have come down from the top of the rudder shaft.
Guy
windjunkee
Member III
Chris,
We pulled the rudder on our E-32-2 last year when we had it modified. We changed the rudder packing while the rudder was out. We're getting no water in the shaft or the rudder and it was actually quite easy to get the rudder out and back in again. Both jobs were accomplished with the boat in the water. We don't get any water in the bilge from the rudder packing box, and Mike, my partner, did a fantastic job with that rebuild while I was dealing with the rudder mods.
We're at the point, however, where we have to change the prop shaft packing. Thats just a nasty job.
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
We pulled the rudder on our E-32-2 last year when we had it modified. We changed the rudder packing while the rudder was out. We're getting no water in the shaft or the rudder and it was actually quite easy to get the rudder out and back in again. Both jobs were accomplished with the boat in the water. We don't get any water in the bilge from the rudder packing box, and Mike, my partner, did a fantastic job with that rebuild while I was dealing with the rudder mods.
We're at the point, however, where we have to change the prop shaft packing. Thats just a nasty job.
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
ChrisS
Member III
Jim--
What did the assembly look like beneath the tiller fitting? The surveyor said that the rudder looked great--and I maybe in denial here--but Guy and a neighor both pointed out that water could have come in through the tiller fitting. So I plan on removing this, siphoning out the water, and then rebedding the tiller fitting and doing any thing else while I have the top of the rudder assembly apart (like checking/replacing the bearnings).
I ended up repacking the rudder stuffing box, and I don't plan on hauling next year. I may drop the rudder then, and if I win the lotto perhaps I'll go for a rudder rebuild if mine is shot, although I would like a deeper rudder.
Your right, getting to that propeller shaft stuffing box does look like a hassle. I also plan on going with a dripless stuffing box for the propeller shaft. Mine is as green as they go, and I wonder about the condition of the shaft. Plus the cutlass bearning is shot and the shaft about 4" too long. So pulling that one will be fun.
--Chris
What did the assembly look like beneath the tiller fitting? The surveyor said that the rudder looked great--and I maybe in denial here--but Guy and a neighor both pointed out that water could have come in through the tiller fitting. So I plan on removing this, siphoning out the water, and then rebedding the tiller fitting and doing any thing else while I have the top of the rudder assembly apart (like checking/replacing the bearnings).
I ended up repacking the rudder stuffing box, and I don't plan on hauling next year. I may drop the rudder then, and if I win the lotto perhaps I'll go for a rudder rebuild if mine is shot, although I would like a deeper rudder.
Your right, getting to that propeller shaft stuffing box does look like a hassle. I also plan on going with a dripless stuffing box for the propeller shaft. Mine is as green as they go, and I wonder about the condition of the shaft. Plus the cutlass bearning is shot and the shaft about 4" too long. So pulling that one will be fun.
--Chris
Hey everyone,
I've got my 32-2 hauled out right now and have a number of project going on at the moment which keep making room for other projects. I have my engine and fuel tank removed to rebuild motor mount bunks and to rebuild one of the steering brackets. My stuffing box is really green and removed the bolts to the quadrant a little water poured out. Since im out of the water im assuming it has leaked down from the tiller bracket. I am by my self working on this and I want to know from someone with experience if my rudder is supposed to fall right out after removing the one bolt the goes through the pipe for the emergency tiller and the other that goes through the center of the quadrant. Both of which I have done but I don't want to start yanking really hard on it without knowing more.
Also where can I get new packing? And should I ad a zirc hole?
Thank,
Tom
P.S. how do I add picture on this sight?
I've got my 32-2 hauled out right now and have a number of project going on at the moment which keep making room for other projects. I have my engine and fuel tank removed to rebuild motor mount bunks and to rebuild one of the steering brackets. My stuffing box is really green and removed the bolts to the quadrant a little water poured out. Since im out of the water im assuming it has leaked down from the tiller bracket. I am by my self working on this and I want to know from someone with experience if my rudder is supposed to fall right out after removing the one bolt the goes through the pipe for the emergency tiller and the other that goes through the center of the quadrant. Both of which I have done but I don't want to start yanking really hard on it without knowing more.
Also where can I get new packing? And should I ad a zirc hole?
Thank,
Tom
P.S. how do I add picture on this sight?
Hey everyone,
I've got my 32-2 hauled out right now and have a number of project going on at the moment which keep making room for other projects. I have my engine and fuel tank removed to rebuild motor mount bunks and to rebuild one of the steering brackets. My stuffing box is really green and removed the bolts to the quadrant a little water poured out. Since im out of the water im assuming it has leaked down from the tiller bracket. I am by my self working on this and I want to know from someone with experience if my rudder is supposed to fall right out after removing the one bolt the goes through the pipe for the emergency tiller and the other that goes through the center of the quadrant. Both of which I have done but I don't want to start yanking really hard on it without knowing more.
Also where can I get new packing? And should I ad a zirc hole?
Thank,
Tom
P.S. how do I add picture on this sight?
I've got my 32-2 hauled out right now and have a number of project going on at the moment which keep making room for other projects. I have my engine and fuel tank removed to rebuild motor mount bunks and to rebuild one of the steering brackets. My stuffing box is really green and removed the bolts to the quadrant a little water poured out. Since im out of the water im assuming it has leaked down from the tiller bracket. I am by my self working on this and I want to know from someone with experience if my rudder is supposed to fall right out after removing the one bolt the goes through the pipe for the emergency tiller and the other that goes through the center of the quadrant. Both of which I have done but I don't want to start yanking really hard on it without knowing more.
Also where can I get new packing? And should I ad a zirc hole?
Thank,
Tom
P.S. how do I add picture on this sight?
Regarding attaching photos, there is information under the little link above: "FAQ".
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/faq.php?faq=vb3_reading_posting#faq_vb3_attachments
Once you figure out that there are size limits for amount of data in your picture and also some maximum height and widths you need to adhere to, it's pretty easy. Just put your picture into your computer's photo editor and adjust its footprint, and the total size (by changing the resolution, usually), the site's attachment dialog box is reasonably intuitive - or is after you use it a couple of times!
Email me if you try and still need a bit of help.
Loren
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ChrisS,
The strangest part of it all was that as I studied the green parts of the bronze quadrant, it seemed to me that the water is entering through the rudder shaft, where the through bolt holds the two parts of the quadrant together. Could this mean that water is going through the rudder and into the shaft? I threaded a length of wire down through the hole in the shaft towards the rudder, and when I brought it out it was wet and gunky looking.
Loren just mentioned something in another rudder thread that might possibly apply to your "green" quadrant:
When we recently pulled those four large screws out and re-bedded them we stopped a pesky leak that started last winter. Water had been showing up under the engine, and then working its way forward. After some "csi" work back inside the stern, I found water collecting inside the top of the quadrant casting -- dripping down from those bolts.
From thread "Rudder Post Question"
The strangest part of it all was that as I studied the green parts of the bronze quadrant, it seemed to me that the water is entering through the rudder shaft, where the through bolt holds the two parts of the quadrant together. Could this mean that water is going through the rudder and into the shaft? I threaded a length of wire down through the hole in the shaft towards the rudder, and when I brought it out it was wet and gunky looking.
Loren just mentioned something in another rudder thread that might possibly apply to your "green" quadrant:
When we recently pulled those four large screws out and re-bedded them we stopped a pesky leak that started last winter. Water had been showing up under the engine, and then working its way forward. After some "csi" work back inside the stern, I found water collecting inside the top of the quadrant casting -- dripping down from those bolts.
From thread "Rudder Post Question"
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