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32-200 Exhaust system question

Pete the Cat

Member III
I am looking to buy an Ericson 32-200 if it passes inspection, but it has a screwed up exhaust system. Some mechanic ran the hose (2" is that right?) down over the coupling (which tore a hole in it--which is what was wrong with it in the beginning) and then attached a 1.88" Centek Waterlift upright muffler BACKWARDS!. I don't think he ran it long this way--at least I hope not, but I will be checking the compression on the engine. What I am interested in is that if anyone can tell me or show me a picture of the proper exhaust system the Universal 25XP in these should have? It seems a very tight fit to put any muffler in the space over the stuffing box. I am perplexed.
Ray Durkee
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Seems odd that a "mechanic" could mistake the gozinta for the gozouta on a water lift muffler..... :)
There is a picture of our new water lift muffler in this blog entry: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/muffler-mod-for-an-olson.700/

If I recall, our new Betasmarine uses a 2" exhaust hose and our former M25XP used something like an 1 5/8 or maybe a bit larger.

As for perplexity, yup, it's tight in the rear bilge of that model. EY did a great job of fitting the pieces together, but replacement of parts is interesting, three decades later. :(

Keep us posted!
Meanwhile I hope an owner of a sister ship logs in.
 
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Pete the Cat

Member III
I guess my question is even more basic. This 32-200 has the original Universal 25xP. Did the original routing of the exhaust go down the port side (seems like there is no option) under the wall to the port of the transmission, then directly (?) over the coupling (this seems like a horrible idea) and then into a cannister waterlift positioned near the stuffing box? This seems almost an impossible fit, especially if he had put it in the right orientation (side in top out) which he did not. ??? Also, he left the old hose to the stern in there, but where should I look for the loop before it exits the hull. I do not know where to look and it is tight in there.
Thanks folks. I have a Tartan 37 and have learned the value of these forums.
Ray Durkee
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
The original factory metal muffler standpipe setup on our early 70’s E-32 (totally wrapped in asbestos) was a system to remember! Simple and efficient but highly susceptible to the ravages of salt water and time.

Salt water injected into it had definitely shortened it’s life and was truly difficult to diagnose given the asbestos wrappings. Eventually the smell of exhaust fumes in the cabin became a “DEAD” giveaway!

Our straight salt water raw water cooled Atomic Four was also pretty much done for, along with the exhaust system, by the late 80’s early 90’s (our boat being a salt water boat since ‘73). ....It WAS definitely time finally for a new engine and exhaust system!!!

Our then new engine choice was a Westerbeke 2cyl 18hp with an “Aqua Lift” rubber muffler system as it fit perfectly without modifications. It/they have worked absolutely flawlessly ever since - without issues or concerns.....OR EXHAUST LEAKS!

As mentioned, this was in the early 90’s - so no doubt there are many more options available today - but is offered as what we did and have come to realize as GOOD and reliable decisions.

EA309182-FF3D-4E36-9CED-8C0935B70E0D.jpeg
 

clayton

Member III
Ray - my original exhaust hose does indeed go down the port side to port of the transmission. It runs next to the battery box where it is held with a cable tie screwed to the battery box, then crosses to starboard behind the stuffing box. The muffler is tucked further aft to starboard, actually have to lay in the berth and stick head into the opening over the stuffing box to see it. The hose after the muffler might loop up in the lazarette near the gauge/glow plug/ignition box, or it is under the floor of the lazarette. Sorry I don't remember its been a couple of years since I worked on this system. The original exhaust hose is 1-5/8". I found a Centek 2" to 1-5/8" reducer to join exhaust hoses when I replaced the exhaust riser/mixing elbow, as the new Westerbeke unit had a 2" outlet.
Clayton
 

Pete the Cat

Member III
Ray - my original exhaust hose does indeed go down the port side to port of the transmission. It runs next to the battery box where it is held with a cable tie screwed to the battery box, then crosses to starboard behind the stuffing box. The muffler is tucked further aft to starboard, actually have to lay in the berth and stick head into the opening over the stuffing box to see it. The hose after the muffler might loop up in the lazarette near the gauge/glow plug/ignition box, or it is under the floor of the lazarette. Sorry I don't remember its been a couple of years since I worked on this system. The original exhaust hose is 1-5/8". I found a Centek 2" to 1-5/8" reducer to join exhaust hoses when I replaced the exhaust riser/mixing elbow, as the new Westerbeke unit had a 2" outlet.
Clayton
 

Pete the Cat

Member III
So the original muffler was a Centek Water lift type and it was located right along side the stuffing box on the Starboard side? Does not seem like there is enough room there for a side in, top out muffler. But I will do some measuring.
Ray Durkee
 

frosero7744

Member II
When i got my E32-200 the surveyor commented that there was no waterlift muffler. He listed the task to install one on my to do list but not under immediate things to do. Theres another 1990 E32-200 in Alameda by me and it also has no WLM. The 1990 had a Yanmar engine not sure if that makes a difference. After 30 years with no WLM i have deferred the project until its time to replace the wet exhaust hose. Either way man its super tight.
 

Pete the Cat

Member III
When i got my E32-200 the surveyor commented that there was no waterlift muffler. He listed the task to install one on my to do list but not under immediate things to do. Theres another 1990 E32-200 in Alameda by me and it also has no WLM. The 1990 had a Yanmar engine not sure if that makes a difference. After 30 years with no WLM i have deferred the project until its time to replace the wet exhaust hose. Either way man its super tight.
Thanks. super tight seems like a bit of an understatement, but I will find a way. I am interestred in the folks who have no WLM in the system. Where exactly is the loop to keep water from running back into the engine? Does it make a lot of noise? The boat I just bought has a water lift, installed backwards (!) and really has no loop. Somehow the engine has avoided damage. Amazing luck. Idiot mechanic.
 

frosero7744

Member II
Thanks. super tight seems like a bit of an understatement, but I will find a way. I am interestred in the folks who have no WLM in the system. Where exactly is the loop to keep water from running back into the engine? Does it make a lot of noise? The boat I just bought has a water lift, installed backwards (!) and really has no loop. Somehow the engine has avoided damage. Amazing luck. Idiot mechanic.
Mine is not loud at all and doesnt really have a loop. The output is out of the water fairly high. On mine it's the highest opening in the group of outlets where the bilge and everything spits out. Not sure what the nautical term is hahaha!!! The exhaust hose runs pretty low past my dripless then to the outlet. It's really never under water by much or for long. The waves would have to be jamming into your exhaust to get to the motor also. I'm a sf bay sailor though so maybe coastal or offshore would be different. Far from an expert opinion but shes survived 30 years so far fine. Curious to hear a saltier sailors opinion myself.
 

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
I recall that Bryan @vanilladuck had some sort of related water-exhaust situation when he first bought his 32-3 that he remedied right away. It may have been a different challenge.

I have the Yanmar. The exhaust line exits the starboard side of the engine and continues to the rear through-hull. It does not cross the propeller shaft axis, from what I remember. It hasn't been a problem for the past 30 years so....
 

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
On my 200 the wet exhaust is the highest of the through-hulls at the rear (top starboard):

I'm sure water could still get splashed into it.

IMG_9212 (1).JPG


The exhaust mixing elbow on my engine has an 'integral loop' to help prevent backflow. I don't think I have any other loop or backflow prevention in my system. This picture is not of my 3GM30F but mine is very similar:

3GM30F exhaust elbow.jpg
 

Pete the Cat

Member III
Mine is not loud at all and doesnt really have a loop. The output is out of the water fairly high. On mine it's the highest opening in the group of outlets where the bilge and everything spits out. Not sure what the nautical term is hahaha!!! The exhaust hose runs pretty low past my dripless then to the outlet. It's really never under water by much or for long. The waves would have to be jamming into your exhaust to get to the motor also. I'm a sf bay sailor though so maybe coastal or offshore would be different. Far from an expert opinion but shes survived 30 years so far fine. Curious to hear a saltier sailors opinion myself.
So your hose runs UP? from the dripless and out? I am not sure on your boat where your "bilge and everything exits" as it seems this was done differently on different boats. I am wondering if the boats came from the factory with no water lift muffler, but I think that surveyors for subsequent sales of the vessel might recommend them to cover themselves as this is a bit of a shortcut from traditional exhaust systems in most boats with an engine below the water line. I am thinking that maybe they are not really needed. But I would think there needs to be a very short hose or a loop to prevent water from running back into the exhaust. I am confident most of the engine is below the waterline. But I could be wrong. Anyone have some insight? What marina are you in in SF Bay? I am there as well.
Ray Durkee
 

Pete the Cat

Member III
On my 200 the wet exhaust is the highest of the through-hulls at the rear (top starboard):

I'm sure water could still get splashed into it.

View attachment 36411


The exhaust mixing elbow on my engine has an 'integral loop' to help prevent backflow. I don't think I have any other loop or backflow prevention in my system. This picture is not of my 3GM30F but mine is very similar:

View attachment 36412
Obviously it works. I just do not understand how the water in the line does not flow back into the engine at shut down if there is no loop. In my boat, it appears the exhaust hose previously ran over the stuffing box, then into a loop up along the inside lazerrette wall, then down to the the outlet. A subsequent owner added a water lift in the system (but put it in backwards! and with no loop) and the engine still runs. I cannot figure out why any of these situations I am seeing in these boats and others does not result it water running back into the engine when it shuts down. Theories or expertise is invited.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
My impression is that the design changes of the -200s (different qberth, rudder post, aft head, engine) created issues with the installation of a muffler. Several threads report the 38-200 muffler partially hidden and difficult to access.

The "-3" design has obvious muffler in the lazarette and big loop in the exhaust hose.

Some exhaust runs deal with the siphon issue with a one-way valve in the exhaust system.
 

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
This question probably reveals my ignorance more than anything, but I'll ask it anyway:

Other than ongoing corrosion, what's the big deal if I have some raw water in the heat exchanger with a fresh-water cooled engine?

The engine is cooled by the anti-freeze-freshwater mix that circulates around the combustion cylinders. The explosions in the cylinders heat up that coolant fluid. The coolant goes out to my heat exchanger, where cool raw water (salt water in my case) flows by, pushed by the impeller, and that takes away the heat from the antifreeze mix. Some of the raw water gets sprayed into the hot gases exiting the engine to cool off those fumes.

There is no more risk of hydrolocking the engine if there were no raw water in the heat exchanger. The coolant mix is the only fluid that is getting anywhere near my cylinders unless a gasket is leaking somewhere - which would be peripheral to the backflow issue.

What part don't I understand?
 

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
This question probably reveals my ignorance more than anything, but I'll ask it anyway:

Other than ongoing corrosion, what's the big deal if I have some raw water in the heat exchanger with a fresh-water cooled engine?

The engine is cooled by the anti-freeze-freshwater mix that circulates around the combustion cylinders. The explosions in the cylinders heat up that coolant fluid. The coolant goes out to my heat exchanger, where cool raw water (salt water in my case) flows by, pushed by the impeller, and that takes away the heat from the antifreeze mix. Some of the raw water gets sprayed into the hot gases exiting the engine to cool off those fumes.

There is no more risk of hydrolocking the engine if there were no raw water in the heat exchanger. The coolant mix is the only fluid that is getting anywhere near my cylinders unless a gasket is leaking somewhere - which would be peripheral to the backflow issue.

What part don't I understand?
I mean, isn't raw water always trapped on the inflow side of your engine heat exchanger unless your impeller leaks?

You shut off the engine, close the seacock for the impeller before you go home, and you have water trapped on the way into the engine, right?
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
While the installation might have been very crowded/convoluted, I tend to believe that the boat had a water lift muffler installed when it left the factory. Unless of course I am confused.
 
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Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
My muffler (E35-3, 25XP) was above the stuffing box, but sat on a small platform which I believe was attached by screws to wood which was glassed into the hull...


061703_engine_compartment.jpg
 

clayton

Member III
Some pics from today. In the second, the black muffler is barely visible between the dryer vent hose and other hoses.2B860F04-EBD7-418A-9D30-774AB121212A.jpegC36E58EE-FB0F-4893-A01C-ECF38B8D9C1F.jpegDF9890FC-EAB7-4E2B-B4C0-42713D5DA9D7.jpeg1FFC95C3-7A1D-4726-8696-505C4539CB2B.jpeg
 
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