32-3 Main Sheet rigging, with rigid vang in place

[windblown]

We‘ve been using the main sheet set-up as it came with the boat, but it seems to me there are too many points of friction along the main sheet path. We have a rigid vang (gerhauer) and a boom brake/preventer (Walder), all from PO. The main sheet leaves its pulley system at the traveler and runs forward to a block at mid-boom, along the under/side of the boom (over the boom brake, over the boom vang) to a block under the gooseneck, straight down to a block on the mast collar, through the deck organizer, and back to the cockpit through a clutch. It rubs (and can catch) along the mast above the vang, and the gooseneck block can rub against the reef lines and tackle. I’ve re-organized some of the blocks on the mast collar to avert some of this, but is there any reason not to run the main sheet at an angle down from the mid-boom block (under the boom brake and vang) to a block at the mast collar, then through the organizer, and back to the cockpit through the clutch?
On the attached, the gold highlights shows the current route of the main sheet (under the sail cover, and actually along the port side of the boom), and the green line shows the proposed route. . .
Thanks, in advance, for your wisdom and counsel!

 

[Dave G.]

At first glance and sitting in my armchair your proposed route makes sense to me and should reduce a lot of drag by the many blocks/turns on the current set up. Not sure the PO's reason to set it up that way other than to have a clean look under the boom ?

 

[Alan Gomes]

We‘ve been using the main sheet set-up as it came with the boat, but it seems to me there are too many points of friction along the main sheet path. We have a rigid vang (gerhauer) and a boom brake/preventer (Walder), all from PO. The main sheet leaves its pulley system at the traveler and runs forward to a block at mid-boom, along the under/side of the boom (over the boom brake, over the boom vang) to a block under the gooseneck, straight down to a block on the mast collar, through the deck organizer, and back to the cockpit through a clutch. It rubs (and can catch) along the mast above the vang, and the gooseneck block can rub against the reef lines and tackle. I’ve re-organized some of the blocks on the mast collar to avert some of this, but is there any reason not to run the main sheet at an angle down from the mid-boom block (under the boom brake and vang) to a block at the mast collar, then through the organizer, and back to the cockpit through the clutch?
On the attached, the gold highlights shows the current route of the main sheet (under the sail cover, and actually along the port side of the boom), and the green line shows the proposed route. . .
Thanks, in advance, for your wisdom and counsel!

I changed mine years ago from what you have now to what you are proposing.

 

[Loren Beach]

Probably a wrong guess, but I wonder how the line diameter is, compared the the room thru the sheaves? Sometimes as a line ages, it expands and gets "fuzzier" and drags a bit on each sheave or set of cheeks. This can introduce friction, which accumulates for every direction change.. The main sheet system on the 80's Ericson's with housetop travelers has quite a few changes in directions plus the higher effort involved when the boom (center of-) attachment is quite a ways forward.

Just another .02 worth.....

 

[windblown]

Probably a wrong guess, but I wonder how the line diameter is, compared the the room thru the sheaves? Sometimes as a line ages, it expands and gets "fuzzier" and drags a bit on each sheave or set of cheeks. This can introduce friction, which accumulates for every direction change.. The main sheet system on the 80's Ericson's with housetop travelers has quite a few changes in directions plus the higher effort involved when the boom (center of-) attachment is quite a ways forward.

Just another .02 worth.....

Thanks, Loren.
I replaced the old, black Stay-Set X (shown in the photo) with Regatta braid this year. It runs very well through the sheaves and blocks, but it’s probably more likely to catch on the top of the boom vang, and it shows the places where it rubs more than the old line did. It started fuzzier, which is some of its charm.
I’d like to keep this one in good shape for as long as possible. . .

I changed mine years ago from what you have now to what you are proposing

Thanks, Alan. Always good to hear an idea has been tested.

At first glance and sitting in my armchair your proposed route makes sense to me and should reduce a lot of drag by the many blocks/turns on the current set up. Not sure the PO's reason to set it up that way other than to have a clean look under the boom ?

Perhaps, or to keep more of it out of the sun?

 

[bgary]

The mast collar is designed for relatively vertical loads. Re-routing the mainsheet in the way you propose will mean that the mainsheet exerts some up-and-aft (diagonal) load on the collar when under tension. Granted, it'll be a fraction of the total mainsheet load because of the 4:1 at the traveler.

It may be a complete non-issue, but... perhaps something to consider.

I ended up ditching that forward-then-down-then-aft-along-the-deck configuration, and went with a simple 6:1 purchase that lives entirely on the traveler.

 

[Loren Beach]

(Adding another 2 cent opinion)

Actually the load "vector" is at 45 degreed to the vertical, since the force is directed at 90 degrees. Also, having just reattached that same SS plate, There are something like 12 1/4-20 bolts around the base and it should hold secure a fair % of the boat's weight... !

The glass layup in that area appears to be thick(er) also.

Imagine the force on a turning block in a spinnaker knockdown to 90 degrees, in heavy air. Our boats, unlike many of the current 'mobile homes with masts' were designed & built such loads.

 

[windblown]

The mast collar is designed for relatively vertical loads. Re-routing the mainsheet in the way you propose will mean that the mainsheet exerts some up-and-aft (diagonal) load on the collar when under tension. Granted, it'll be a fraction of the total mainsheet load because of the 4:1 at the traveler.

It may be a complete non-issue, but... perhaps something to consider.

I ended up ditching that forward-then-down-then-aft-along-the-deck configuration, and went with a simple 6:1 purchase that lives entirely on the traveler.

View attachment 39426

Thanks for sharing this option. What is the hardware tackle called at the traveler? Is that a cam cleat that you use instead of a clutch? Do you route it over to the winch if you need to?

 

[windblown]

(Adding another 2 cent opinion)

Actually the load "vector" is at 45 degreed to the vertical, since the force is directed at 90 degrees. Also, having just reattached that same SS plate, There are something like 12 1/4-20 bolts around the base and it should hold secure a fair % of the boat's weight... !

The glass layup in that area appears to be thick(er) also.

Imagine the force on a turning block in a spinnaker knockdown to 90 degrees, in heavy air. Our boats, unlike many of the current 'mobile homes with masts' were designed & built such loads.

Thanks, Loren. Are you suggesting that the load is better directed at the mast collar than the cabin top, or just that the mast collar has the strength to handle the load vector?
Having the mainsheet “locked down” in the clutch and around the winch in the current scenario is fine for an easy cruise, but it make this skipper a little nervous when sailing with inexperienced crew if it gets at all gusty.

 

[bgary]

What is the hardware tackle called at the traveler?

Which one? The solid-blue line is my mainsheet, the blue-and-white is my boom-vang. The grubby white horizontal lines adjust the position of the traveler car on the track.

For the mainsheet, the tackle is just assembled from some blocks and attached to the existing points (the two eyes on the bottom of the boom, and the eye on top of the traveller car.)

IIRC, to make up the 6:1 tackle I used
-- a single block for the aft one on the boom
-- a "fiddle" block for the forward one at the boom
-- a triple-block with ratchet, becket and cam-cleat for the "working" end on the traveller.

For the way I sail, it works great. On autopilot, it's not a lot different than having the mainsheet through a clutch - go to the forward end of the cockpit and it's there. But (e.g.) in occasional/casual single-handed races,I can easily trim both jib and main without leaving the helm. The tail of the mainsheet reaches as far back as the wheel, so... while at the helm I can play the main like a giant Laser sail, and I can also "flick" the mainsheet out of the cam-cleat in an instant, if I need to dump the main in a puff or something.

Yes, the mainsheet can be led to a winch the way I've got it set up, but I haven't yet needed to. 6:1 is a lot of mechanical advantage, and if/when I have needed more mainsheet than I can get by simply pulling on it, it's a simple matter to "feather" the boat into the wind a little to reduce the load on the sail.... then pull some mainsheet on and fall off back to my course. Takes less time to do than to describe.

$.02

 

[windblown]

triple block with ratchet, becket and cam cleat. Thanks.
I really like the idea of being able to play and dump the main.

 

[Kenneth K]

Looks like your proposed change just takes one pulley out of the system so I wouldn't expect a huge friction reduction, unless that block happened to be bad (which I'm sure you've checked). But if it gives the sheet a better lie/less chafing, that may be reason enough to do it.

That boom brake looks like it takes up a lot of real estate for something that is only used on one point of sail. I might rig a quick release to move it out of the way when not needed.

 

[Alan Gomes]

triple block with ratchet, becket and cam cleat. Thanks.
I really like the idea of being able to play and dump the main.

I find that I play and dump the traveler much more than I do the mainsheet. Dumping the mainsheet generally affects the sail's twist, which I would not usually adjust as frequently. Dropping the traveler in the gusts usually works better, because it adjusts the sail's angle of attack without affecting the sail's shape.

 

[bgary]

I find that I play and dump the traveler much more than I do the mainsheet.

Good point.

In my case, the OEM traveler is very short, so dumping the traveler only moves the car about 15" to leeward of centerline.

Rather than take on a project to install a longer traveler, I made my vang extra beefy. It's an 8:1 purchase with low-stretch line, and so once the vang is set I can dump the mainsheet without affecting the shape much. Effectively I'm doing (what we used to call, in my dinghy-days) "vang-sheeting".

 

[Alan Gomes]

Good point.

In my case, the OEM traveler is very short, so dumping the traveler only moves the car about 15" to leeward of centerline.

Rather than take on a project to install a longer traveler, I made my vang extra beefy. It's an 8:1 purchase with low-stretch line, and so once the vang is set I can dump the mainsheet without affecting the shape much. Effectively I'm doing (what we used to call, in my dinghy-days) "vang-sheeting".

Right. That was the thought behind my statement, "Dumping the mainsheet *generally* affects the sail's twist." If you have a beefy enough vang, you can reduce or eliminate that issue.

One upgrade I did to my boat is to install a Garhauer traveler. It works very, very well and makes dumping or pulling the main up to windward exceedingly easy. My boat is tiller steered and the traveler controls are right where I want them when I'm at the helm. The traveler has plenty of purchase regardless of the conditions. It's a joy to use vs. the original.

But it sounds as though you can get a somewhat similar result with your powerful mainsheet system and vang, at least as far as twist is concerned. The main drawback with your shorter traveler is that you may not always be able to get the boom high enough to windward.

 

[bgary]

exactly. Garhauer makes a traveler that extends to towers outboard of the edge of the spray-hood, which would pretty much double the length of travel I have available. plus be easier to adjust under load.



while I love-love-love Makana, I've always been a little jealous of the traveler that Mariah (@Kenneth K 's boat) came with. it looks like a sweet unit and is on my list of "things to upgrade in my spare time".

I just don't remember what "spare time" looks like....

 

[Kenneth K]

Bruce, that picture also shows the case where the mainsheet control can't come directly off a traveler mounted cam cleat. Because of the dodger, the sheet has to run forward to mast/collar/organizer then outward and aft to a winch.

 

[Kenneth K]

.... is there any reason not to run the main sheet..... through the organizer, and back to the cockpit through the clutch?

When I re-did my running rigging, folks recommended NOT running the mainsheet through a clutch so I ran mine directly to the coachroof winch. A clamcleat ahead of the winch can hold the sheet if I need to use the winch for other lines. Cam cleats work well for this application, too.

 

[Christian Williams]

A clutch is just more friction, and in light air we're often shaking the mainsheet just to get it to go out. And a clutch tends to foul when its line goes slack, as a mainsheet often does.

Bruce has the answer in Post #6, for those who play the mainsheet from the wheel. Makes it like dinghy sailing.

 

[windblown]

Very helpful discussion here. We have the short, OEM traveler, no dodger, and a rigid vang, so Bruce’s solution may be the best for us. The cost of the triple block with ratchet, becket, and cam is a little steep, so it will go on this year‘s wish list. In the meantime, we ran the mainsheet down to the mast collar block from mid-boom, through the organizer, and back to the clutch yesterday, and it was an improvement. I like Kenneth’s idea of not running it back through a clutch. We’re looking at clutch replacements soon (the OEM Easylocks are on borrowed time).

Looks like your proposed change just takes one pulley out of the system so I wouldn't expect a huge friction reduction, unless that block happened to be bad (which I'm sure you've checked). But if it gives the sheet a better lie/less chafing, that may be reason enough to do it.

That boom brake looks like it takes up a lot of real estate for something that is only used on one point of sail. I might rig a quick release to move it out of the way when not needed.

We’re so used to the boom brake where it is; I hadn’t thought about it taking up real estate. The line runs to a clutch on the starboard coaming that is very easy for me to set/release.