35-2 Rudder Post Leak

[Farlander]

Hi All,

It's been a while since I posted but that's because I've been out enjoying sailing the pants off my E35 2-3x weekly. No however I have a new issue that has flooded the cabin sole several times. I just cleaned the most recent bilge flood out of the carpet and would like to keep it that way.

Inspection below decks while underway revealed a leak at the rudder post where it passes through the rudder shaft log. I have no idea what I am going to find in there or how I should prepare... questions:
Is there a removable bearing or seal or does the shaft ride directly in the log?
Should there be a place to grease the log/shaft below deck?
Can this repair be done in the water?

Here is a nice video showing the problem!

 

[Christian Williams]

Leaky rudder gland? Grease the lower bearing first and see what happens.

Here's the long version:

E32-3 - Rudder Gland Repack and Reseal, New Zerk Installed

Symptom: Water in the bilge after returning to slip. Bilge is normally dry. Cause: Rudder packing gland/rudder tube/frozen lower grease fitting. There should not be much water in the bilge of a fiberglass boat. I figure that with a dripless...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Farlander]

Ah yes thank you at first I thought they were different designs but now I see that the bottom half of the stuffing box on my boat is encapsulated in fiberglass! Joy!!!

This might actually work to my advantage IF I can get the top flange off perhaps I can remove the old packing and replace without having to perform total surgery on the log.

 

[Christian Williams]

The rudder post (or rudder stock) rides inside the rudder tube. Not to be confused with shaft log.

Forget the packing until you have injected grease into the tube. Grease may well be all you need. There should be a Zerk grease fitting in the rudder tube, if not install one as shown in the blog entry.

 

[nquigley]

Hi All,

It's been a while since I posted but that's because I've been out enjoying sailing the pants off my E35 2-3x weekly. No however I have a new issue that has flooded the cabin sole several times. I just cleaned the most recent bilge flood out of the carpet and would like to keep it that way.

Inspection below decks while underway revealed a leak at the rudder post where it passes through the rudder shaft log. I have no idea what I am going to find in there or how I should prepare... questions:
Is there a removable bearing or seal or does the shaft ride directly in the log?
Should there be a place to grease the log/shaft below deck?
Can this repair be done in the water?

Here is a nice video showing the problem!

Are we seeing some 'flopping' side to side of the rudder in the fiberglass sleeve? As Christian said - try to pack the space between the sleeve and rudder post with grease via a zerk nossle. That may hold you.

 

[DaveE26]

What I think you have is an Edson stuffing box it has a wax seal that probably died 20 or 30 years ago I think its above the water line on a 35-2.
There are 3 bolts that hold the cover on and the seal goes there under the cover. does it only leak when your in gear or moving ie sailing I would think so you have to measure the ruder post and call Edson they can sell you the correct packing cut to size but be real carfull dont break the bolts or your fucked. check out the link

https://cdn10.bigcommerce.com/s-a3x5y9g98l/products/389/images/2125/Rudder-Post-Stuffing-Box-1__25013.1517324557.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

 

[Farlander]

Hmm this is a little late.

The flange appears to have 4 bolts on it.

I tried the CW method today but made what hopefully will not be a fatal flaw. In the 35-2 the bottom of the log is below the water line. I drilled the small hole pretty low on the log and water began coming in immediately. So, it is below the water line. Oops.

Anyway I drilled a 5/16" hole about 3/8" deep and tried to thread the zerk fitting into the fiberglass. The zerk is 3/8" x 24 thread and would not take. I only had shitty tools including one crummy ratchet. I tried using a 3/8 x 16 bolt to prethread, which worked, but bulged the glass, and cut the wrong pattern anyway. I could not get the zerk to thread into the glass.

I decided instead to mount a receptacle for the zerk fitting, which I found at the local chandlery, it was the only thing in the whole place that was threaded 3/8 x 24 so I grabbed it. It's a bronze coupler about 1 1/4" long.

I drilled out a 1" recess with a paddle bit centered on the small hole, and set about mixing up thickened epoxy. I epoxied the bronze coupler into the 1" recessed hole centered over the 1/4" hole, using electricians putty (butyl lump) to plug the small hole that was through to the shaft and taking on water. Once cured in place, I'll apply a second epoxy application including a layer of roving it the fitting will hopefully be able to stand the strain of putting the grease gun fitting on and off.

 

[Christian Williams]

Bravo. You have successfully replicated the factory installation on my current boat. Let's hope the grease works.

 

[Kevin A Wright]

Yep that's exactly what my 35 Mk3 looks like. What I keep dreaming on doing is running a couple of feet of pipe from that fitting to the inner edge of the lazarette hatch and putting the zerk there. That way I could give it a couple of pumps anytime I felt like it without requiring the assistance of a double jointed midget to get in there for routine maintenance.

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

 

[Afrakes]

Hope the grease "band aid" works until you can get a proper fix.

 

[Farlander]

I also considered leaving a hose permanently attached to the zerk - not so much for convenience, but for not having to put pressure on the zerk fitting every time I take it on and off. I finished the second round of epoxying yesterday, will document the results this afternoon.

 

[kapnkd]

Our ‘73 E-32 is of the same/similar rudder post design and also leaked straight away on delivery from the dealer new when underway as she squatted her stern stretching the waterline.

My/our solution was a thick rubber “O” ring slipped down over the rudder post and greased with overly generous amounts of ‘Lubriplate’ brand grease. It has worked well and held up for a very LONG time now.

(The rudder did need to be dropped just far enough from the top bearing plate to get the rubber ring over and down the rudder post to the lower post/bearing plate.)

 

[WindHorse]

Hmm this is a little late.

The flange appears to have 4 bolts on it.

I tried the CW method today but made what hopefully will not be a fatal flaw. In the 35-2 the bottom of the log is below the water line. I drilled the small hole pretty low on the log and water began coming in immediately. So, it is below the water line. Oops.

Anyway I drilled a 5/16" hole about 3/8" deep and tried to thread the zerk fitting into the fiberglass. The zerk is 3/8" x 24 thread and would not take. I only had shitty tools including one crummy ratchet. I tried using a 3/8 x 16 bolt to prethread, which worked, but bulged the glass, and cut the wrong pattern anyway. I could not get the zerk to thread into the glass.

I decided instead to mount a receptacle for the zerk fitting, which I found at the local chandlery, it was the only thing in the whole place that was threaded 3/8 x 24 so I grabbed it. It's a bronze coupler about 1 1/4" long.

I drilled out a 1" recess with a paddle bit centered on the small hole, and set about mixing up thickened epoxy. I epoxied the bronze coupler into the 1" recessed hole centered over the 1/4" hole, using electricians putty (butyl lump) to plug the small hole that was through to the shaft and taking on water. Once cured in place, I'll apply a second epoxy application including a layer of roving it the fitting will hopefully be able to stand the strain of putting the grease gun fitting on and off.

Farlander,
I'm curious about how this worked out for you. I've the same type of leak in my 35-2 (1970, #155), and thinking of the same solution. Has this held up for you? Is there a precise location the hole needs to be drilled? Thanks for any follow-up insight you might have!

 

[Farlander]

Hi All,

The answer is YES the grease fitting has helped A LOT. However it is not 100% fix and requires adding grease approximately every 3 sails, depending on how many amateurs are behind the wheel and steering like crazy monkeys.

I really like the o-ring idea, however I think the real proper fix would be drop the rudder, machine new delrin bushing to fit and install, and clean up the rudder post as needed.

I'm still sailing the boat and still loving it, she's showing a lot of interior wear now and the mast is due for a pull, clean up, and new standing rigging. Also still some rain leaks from the port lights and the hand rails, and the compression post base block needs some help.

Biggest immediate issue is probably the engine overheats after about 10 minutes. There is an internal coolant leak in my aft mounted Albin AD21 which I thought was the water pump (no longer available) and now suspect is a breached head gasket. I can get about 10 minutes from the engine before overheating ensues and coolant reservoir goes empty. (topic for a new post)

 

[kapnkd]

The rudder post (or rudder stock) rides inside the rudder tube. Not to be confused with shaft log.

Forget the packing until you have injected grease into the tube. Grease may well be all you need. There should be a Zerk grease fitting in the rudder tube, if not install one as shown in the blog entry.

FYI - The older models, like our ‘73 E-32 sadly had no grease (Zerk) fittings.

We simply opted for dropping the rudder post during a scheduled bottom painting.

The post area of the enclosed tube was heavily greased with (Lubriplate) and I had a 3/8”(??) thick rubber “O” ring made to be squeezed in between by the top plate and lower plate. (It was well greased as well to prevent binding on the rudder post.)

This has worked very well for many years with no more noticeable or significant leaks.

 

[WindHorse]

FYI - The older models, like our ‘73 E-32 sadly had no grease (Zerk) fittings.

We simply opted for dropping the rudder post during a scheduled bottom painting.

The post area of the enclosed tube was heavily greased with (Lubriplate) and I had a 3/8”(??) thick rubber “O” ring made to be squeezed in between by the top plate and lower plate. (It was well greased as well to prevent binding on the rudder post.)

This has worked very well for many years with no more noticeable or significant leaks.

By, "between the top plate and lower plate," are you referring to the fitting on top of the "log"? To be clear, this was an o-ring around the rudder post and a gasket between the plates? Any pictures, by chance?

 

[kapnkd]

By, "between the top plate and lower plate," are you referring to the fitting on top of the "log"? To be clear, this was an o-ring around the rudder post and a gasket between the plates? Any pictures, by chance?

Yes, the smaller bronze (hat shaped) cap fitting is held by the four bolts that pull it tightly down on the bronze fitting on top of the glass rudder tube.

Unfortunately I don’t have any photos. This “fix” was done way back prior to the ease and convenience of cell or I-phones.

 

[kapnkd]

Yes, the smaller bronze (hat shaped) cap fitting is held by the four bolts that pull it tightly down on the bronze fitting on top of the glass rudder tube.

Unfortunately I don’t have any photos. This “fix” was done way back prior to the ease and convenience of cell or I-phones.

Looks like my drawing didn’t make the e-trip??? Hopefully this isn’t redundant.

 

[kapnkd]

An additional area of concern on our ‘73 E32-II with regard to overall rudder integrity was the upper cockpit support plate and emergency tiller attachment area.



Overtime, the four bolts holding it to the cockpit sole have worked with normal sailing pressures allowing water to enter and destroy the overall strength and integrity of surrounding areas.

Multiple smaller support fixes worked for awhile but we finally did the grand daddy of them by mounting a 1/2” aluminum plate underneath the sole combined with a lateral support beam also for the quadrant turning blocs and then diagonal braces leading to back underneath the old tiller plate.


End results are a ROCK STEADY upper rudder support plate!!!

 

[Kenneth K]

Curious about the need for an o-ring. That's basically the function of the flax in the stuffing box--to form a compressible ring seal around the rudder post.

Have you tried disassembling & repacking the stuffing box. The pictures make it look like the top and bottom halves of the stuffing box have been glassed together.