Anchoring questions.

[Bepi]

1. On a single anchor Roxanne likes to "Sail at anchor". In windy condition the Ericson 27 will swing nearly 180 degree's which can compromise hold. Is this related to the amount of scope? Will more or less scope make a difference? 2. Other vessels appear to swing also and one solution I have read about is a small sail that attaches to the back stays. Has anyone this type of backstay sail?
Mooring bow and stern on a mooring can is very stable. Can that level of stability be achieved anchoring bow and stern? In other words: how firmly can you tighten your bow and stern anchor lines to avoid sliding around without compromising hold?
Thanks,
Bepi

 

[Loren Beach]

I might later patch this question onto an earlier thread about this problem. We do have and like the steadying sail.

Boat Swings Wildly at Anchor in a breeze

I dont know if anyone else has noticed their boat swing around a lot while at anchor in a moderate to heavy breeze. It seems that other boats in the same anchorage lie relatively calmly into the wind while our Ericson 29 is pacing back and fourth like a spooked horse. Watching the boat for...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[goldenstate]

1. On a single anchor Roxanne likes to "Sail at anchor". In windy condition the Ericson 27 will swing nearly 180 degree's which can compromise hold. Is this related to the amount of scope? Will more or less scope make a difference? 2. Other vessels appear to swing also and one solution I have read about is a small sail that attaches to the back stays. Has anyone this type of backstay sail?
Mooring bow and stern on a mooring can is very stable. Can that level of stability be achieved anchoring bow and stern? In other words: how firmly can you tighten your bow and stern anchor lines to avoid sliding around without compromising hold?
Thanks,
Bepi

I learned a lesson about this when I was visiting Hawaii. We were not on my boat, and drove to Waimea Bay on the North Side of Oahu. There is a big wave surf contest here in the Winter.

The boats pictured were very close to the shore. Their tackle seemed to drop straight down and I wondered if they were on sub-surface moorings (which is a thing in Hawaii). I snorkeled out to check out the tackle. No moorings. Both boats had over 100’ of heavy chain. There was no pull on the anchors whatsoever because of the weight of the chain.

This wouldn’t necessarily solve your swinging in the wind problem, but this observation from Hawaii leads me to the conclusion that, just like all the books say, if you want to anchor out with confidence, get a heavy long anchor chain. The swing radius will be much shorter.

 

[Bepi]

I learned a lesson about this when I was visiting Hawaii. We were not on my boat, and drove to Waimea Bay on the North Side of Oahu. There is a big wave surf contest here in the Winter.

The boats pictured were very close to the shore. Their tackle seemed to drop straight down and I wondered if they were on sub-surface moorings (which is a thing in Hawaii). I snorkeled out to check out the tackle. No moorings. Both boats had over 100’ of heavy chain. There was no pull on the anchors whatsoever because of the weight of the chain.

This wouldn’t necessarily solve your swinging in the wind problem, but this observation from Hawaii leads me to the conclusion that, just like all the books say, if you want to anchor out with confidence, get a heavy long anchor chain. The swing radius will be much shorter.


View attachment 43745

I have a fair amount of chain, 60' but it seems more chain for the bow, and stern,will help and the addition of a stabilizing sail will keep me from looking out of my salon and seeing a different view from the stern every few minutes. Cheers!

 

[Bepi]

On looking at the photo of the steadying sail I noticed that it is set quite high on the backstay. Rather than reinventing the wheel does anyone have suggestions on how to reach that height? ladder? Swinging over on a boson's chair? What is the best method for securing that sail to the stay and I'm going to guess it's temporary and must be removed when leaving the anchorage and setting sail. I read through the thread and did not see where this was described or at least in terms comprehensible to me.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

On looking at the photo of the steadying sail I noticed that it is set quite high on the backstay. Rather than reinventing the wheel does anyone have suggestions on how to reach that height? ladder? Swinging over on a boson's chair? What is the best method for securing that sail to the stay and I'm going to guess it's temporary and must be removed when leaving the anchorage and setting sail.

Perhaps I don't understand the question, but I'd guess you hank it on to the backstay, connect the main halyard at the head and a line to the tack for a downhaul. Bring the clew forward to something? Or do you use the halyard to keep the boom up? In which case, maybe piece the anchor sail between the halyard and the end of the boom, and lock the traveler?

 

[bgary]

My experience has been that removing an "assymmetry" helps a lot. I remember anchoring on a different boat (a Schock 35) that "sailed" as you describe. We thought this might be because the anchor line went to a bow cleat that was off center - so the boat would yaw back and forth. What we worked out was creating a bridle of sorts - we tied a separate piece of line to the anchor line with a rolling hitch, and tensioned that so that the net pull on the boat was "centered". The boat settled down remarkably. Not sure why, but it might be worth a try.

 

[Alan Gomes]

I learned a lesson about this when I was visiting Hawaii. We were not on my boat, and drove to Waimea Bay on the North Side of Oahu. There is a big wave surf contest here in the Winter.

The boats pictured were very close to the shore. Their tackle seemed to drop straight down and I wondered if they were on sub-surface moorings (which is a thing in Hawaii). I snorkeled out to check out the tackle. No moorings. Both boats had over 100’ of heavy chain. There was no pull on the anchors whatsoever because of the weight of the chain.

This wouldn’t necessarily solve your swinging in the wind problem, but this observation from Hawaii leads me to the conclusion that, just like all the books say, if you want to anchor out with confidence, get a heavy long anchor chain. The swing radius will be much shorter.


View attachment 43745

When conditions get snotty, holding power is a function of scope, not the weight of the chain. In the milder conditions shown in that photo, the weight of the chain will indeed limit swinging radius and be just fine. When conditions pick up, scope is required, whether the rode is rope or chain.

In any case, storing a bunch of heavy chain on an E27 is impractical, not to mention that it would adversely affect the boat's sailing characteristics. A boat length or so is probably about right.

 

[Loren Beach]

On looking at the photo of the steadying sail I noticed that it is set quite high on the backstay. Rather than reinventing the wheel does anyone have suggestions on how to reach that height? ladder? Swinging over on a boson's chair? What is the best method for securing that sail to the stay and I'm going to guess it's temporary and must be removed when leaving the anchorage and setting sail. I read through the thread and did not see where this was described or at least in terms comprehensible to me.

I clip the triangular little sail onto the backstay and "hoist" it by leading a spinnaker halyard around the spar. Little pressure on the halyard. You could use the main halyard if you have a way to support the boom when the sail is furled. Then the long dimension of the steadying sail is "sheeted" forward along the side of the boom. Works wonderfully. It's like the fletching on an arrow to align the boat with the wind.

 

[Kenneth K]

The high shear of the bow and a furled headsail will catch the wind when anchored from the bow.

You could try setting your anchor just as you have been, but tying it off to the stern instead. Tied to stern, that high-sheared bow acts much like the "steadying sail" you are referring to.

 

[Stuphoto]

I have a fair amount of chain, 60' but it seems more chain for the bow, and stern,will help and the addition of a stabilizing sail will keep me from looking out of my salon and seeing a different view from the stern every few minutes. Cheers!

Where I live there are 20+ foot tides.
If you don't have a fair amount of scope you will start lifting the chain at high tide and your anchor will start dragging in heavy winds.

And we also usually only anchor or moore from the bow.
Our view is constantly changing but it's no big deal for anyone I know.

The only issue we occasionally have is on calm days during a very low tide, when some boats start drifting very close together.

 

[Christian Williams]

Bepi, re Little Fisherman's cove on Catalina: it's probably a bow and stern anchor deal when it is well populated and swinging on one anchor doesn't work. There is beach traffic and small power boats, so a float on the stern anchor line is a good idea.

You can tighten up the anchor lines as needed, if the anchors hold. I have found a good set difficult there (with the little Danforth on my outboard skiff). It's traditional to consult with other boats if crowding occurs, so everybody's on the same page. When quarters are close, either everybody swings, or nobody.

 

[Stuphoto]

when quarters are close, either everybody swings, or nobody.

Sounds like the making of a hit song,
You can tell whom the writers are here

 

[Bepi]

Sounds like the making of a hit song,
You can tell whom the writers are here

Where is Jimmy Buffett when you need him?