Anchoring / Swinging committee boat

[Mike Thomas]

This will be my first full year with the local race club and I have committee boat duty for one race.

At anchor I usually swing around the hook pretty bad. (Beer helps me to ignore it). I can't imagine holding a good starting line for the rest of the club with my boat swinging around as it does. Obviously a 2nd hook off the stern is not an option.

What techniques can anyone recommend for keeping the swing to a minimum and to keep the starting line stable?

For that matter, what general info would you offer a first time committee boat?

Mike T

 

[Loren Beach]

If you are in a current, like a tide flow, put a bucket off the stern on a line as a drogue. We do this all the time here where we have river current.
Usually you will be oriented with bow to windward for the time you are running the signal sequence, hopefully.
If this is your first RC duty, do have an experienced veteran on board...
In no particular order -- I would have my anchor set well before first signal, have all flags laid out inside with the ones I know I will need rolled and flat on the cabin top. Have more than one source of master time (watch). Have horn and test it -- have a second one if possible. Have clipboard(s) and pencils and a small tape recorder handy for verbal backup on crowded finishes. Parcel out the duties so that you have a person who only does the times, another that does flags, another to watch for over-early's, another to check off entrants on your master list and note who is there for the start and who ain't. Never be afraid to send an overly-agressive start with an indetermanent number of over-earlies to the end of the sequence for a new start... Your general instructions should cover this possibility. I presume you have more than one start. (?)
If you must use the "L" flag and have entrants come by to receive a course chart or anything else, have an 8 foot stick with a clothes pin on the end so you can hand out stuff without having collisions.
If I remember other trivia, I shall add it later...
Good luck and have Fun.
Loren in PDX

 

[NateHanson]

how about something off the backstay to act as a riding sail?

 

[Sean Engle]

Anchor Riding Sail...

That's what I was going to say: get an Anchor Riding Sail -

This this thread for all the info:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=2580

I'm not sure if this is a valid suggest or not - given that we're talking about a committee boat... Anyhow - there it is!

//sse

 

[Chris Miller]

couple of things...

Volunteers for race committee work are great!
Along with all the stuff Loren said, I try to keep the following in mind...
Get out early and check winds and trends (and watch the forcast).
Keep the radio traffic proper and consistant.
Don't forget that the flags are the primary signals, any sounds are secondary and a lack of one is meaningless.
Have fun!

Oh, and anything that is connected to the RC boat is a part of it. If you throw a second anchor or a drogue or something, it has to be avoided just like any other part of the boat. If it is something odd, you might want to make it obvious or make a radio announcement.

 

[u079721]

Setting the start line

Suggestions for being the committee boat.

Everyone knows that the starting line is supposed to be perpendicular to the average wind direction.....but if you are going to be off a bit, try to have the pin end of the line be favored. That way the boats will all bunch up at the pin end during the start, and not by your bow and all run over your anchor rode.

The main problem with most start lines is that they seem to be too short. Figure a line that is about as long as the combined length of the fleet. For 30 boats of about 30 feet that would be a 900 foot line. If you set the line by motoring from the pin, perpendicular to the wind, at 2 kts, that is 200 feet a minute. So for most start lines you need to motor for 3 to 5 minutes at 2 kts to get enough wind before you shoot up into the wind to anchor. When you are motoring away from the pin 3 minutes seems like a LONG time, so be sure to time it to not cut it too short.

As for avoiding swinging, the three things to try are (1) a bucket off the stern, (2) an anchor off the stern that is just resting on the bottom, or (3) an anchor riding sail.

 

[wurzner]

Folks,

Am I missing something here. Unless there is absolutely not wind, the wind will put the commitee boat down wind. Also, as committee boat, if anyone touch your boat or the anchor line, they are penalized or disqualified depending on the rules in place. I'm not sure I would go with the combined length of all the boats; that seems a little extreme. There should be some advantage to timing the line properly and that equates to a line that is not too long. None the less, I've seen it way to often where the line is way to short. In higher winds, closing speeds are quick and the line needs to take into account all these factors. I do agree that if in doubt, make it longer. None the less, 900ft is something would consider excessive. Even in the old hobie days where you are easily doing 15 knots, have 30 plus boats out there, and their manouverability is limited, the line would be more than often, too short.

Familiarize yourself with the time/flag sequence. In our case, we put out a general warning at the six minute mark with is 3 quick blasts. At five minutes, we raise the class flag. At four minutes, we raise a 2nd so we then have two flags showing. At one minute, the 2nd flag comes down followed by the remaining flag at the start.

One thing that no one has mentioned is DON"T BE SHY ABOUT A RECALL/RESTART. There are a lot of folks who have scheduled to race so race commitees should not feel shy about starting over, it's only 5 additional minutes...no big deal. Also, the course should be such that if you put a string taunt around the marks, the string shouldn't overlap I'm not sure why they put that rule in, it limits options depending on where you sail and the available marks).

Most of all, don't get too freaked out and have fun; everyone or most everyone will be very appreciative of your time and efforts.

Good luck and I hope this helped.

Shaun

 

[Loren Beach]

Just a quick note about the "string theory."
When you lay out your course on a chart, you should be able to lay a string around the whole course without it crossing over itself at any one mark. You never want boats rounding a mark and immediately crossing into the approaching boats' paths.
(Yes, I know. At a lewward mark there may be some clueless skipper that wants to tack immediately into the path of a group of spinnaker boats in the "chaos-and-attention-deficit part of the impending overlapped rounding/takedown! Double Yikes! )

As to preferred direction of rounding, tradition favors rounding to port, but either way is "correct" as long as it is obvious in the race instructions. We used to rely on the racers displaying common sense and remembering the string... later we started stating course progression with an (s) beside any bouy name that required a starboard rounding. Whatever works...


As to having fun... if you are organized and focused, you WILL have a lot of fun. Take pictures at roundings if you have RC crew to spare to take the mark boat out...
Note also that RC duty is the single most important on-water activity for learning how to start and finish a race. Do this several times a season and you will see a heckova lot that was never as obvious from your boat when engaged in the theatrics of your own starts!


The club I used to one-design race in all the time required each fleet to run one race in every series, and that became their throwout (whether they wanted to or not).

Fun stuff!

Loren in PDX

 

[Mike Thomas]

Starting line / RC Duty

As always.
Thanks for the advice and words of support.

Everyone’s input on stabilizing the boat is great. I have an old dingy main sitting in the shed loft. I can probably modify that to be used as an anchor sail.

It was nice to hear most everyone say “relax and have fun with it”. That should help keep the nerves to a minimum (along with a proper amount of liquid calm).

Can you all elaborate on "DON"T BE SHY ABOUT A RECALL/RESTART"

Under what conditions do you call for a restart?
If a boat is over early is it his responsibility to address the penalty or the RC’s responsibility to notify that boat? Or call restart?

Fortunately the course is already set, so the "string issue" is not my decision.

I also requested that someone with RC experience be on-board with me. No reply on that one yet….

Thanks again guys, I look forward to the replies

Mike T
E-29

 

[Loren Beach]

More trivia

Recalls -- a necessary nuisance....

When you can plainly pick out the over - early boat(s) and hail them by number, then the onus is on them to return to the other side of the line and make their proper start. They will have to give way to other starters while doing this trip. OTOH, the old racing saying goes that if you are not "over early" once or twice a season you are not trying hard enough!

If they do not choose to return and properly start, write down their numbers and remember that they do not get a finish horn or "over" called because they did not rank as a starter...
It's a hard lesson, but most of us only need one lesson...

A "general recall" happens when there are so many boats over early that the RC cannot honestly hail all the offenders and so puts up the general recall signal and makes the appropriate noise to let that group know that they must do it over. Quite a few years ago the clubs in my area decided that any start subject to this would *not* cause a delay for the other classes, and adopted the scheme of having the recalled start go, in minute sequence, after all other scheduled starts. Milling around for 20 or 30 minutes while everyone else started usually caused them to tame their aggression a bit.
As to notifying an individual boat or a whole group, that's a duty of the RC, and the general instructions for your event will cover this. Along with the proper color flags for preparatory and starting, I always have the recall flag laid out on the cabin top for instant use if needed.
After the starts are all away, we in our little sailing area sometimes have to contend with dying breezes in the summer -- and that leads to decisions about shortening course. If we have enough RC crew we send the mark boat down to our chosen mark-of-the-course and have them fly the shorten course flag and conduct finishes for any classes that due to sail restriction or boat size are unlikely to make it back to us to finish within the time limit.

I don't know about the rest of you guys and gals, but as a competitor I just hate to sail the boat intensively in a dying breeze and finally fail to make the finish line within the time limit... and "waste" the evening!
And, FWIW, it's no fun for the RC folks to preside over an evening or afternoon of massive DNF's, either.

Perhaps you have steadier winds than us, so that finishing is usually assumed; I hope so.

Note that a lot of my so-called advice will be disregarded or perhaps validated by the Race Instructions and Supplemental Race Instructions that your club uses.
This advice may worth even less than the usual $.01 !

Best,
Loren

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Hell if they give you trouble go straight to Black flag or at least start the day with Zulu flying. I just passed the U.S. Sailing Club Race Officer program last weekend. 8 hours of grueling RC seminar. How you run your committee depends a lot on how serious your competitors are and how well organized you are. Rule of thumb for line size is 1 to 1.5 times aggregate boat length. So 5 10' dinghies should have a 50-75' line. Lots of good info on ww.sailing.org. There has been some clarification in the rules regarding what is and is not part of the committee boat. Anything temporarily attached such as a dinghy, float off the stern, anchor line off the bow is NOT classified as part of the committee boat. There was a big discussion over this at the seminar and I defer to U.S. Sailing judges on this one...

 

[u079721]

Rule of thumb for line size is 1 to 1.5 times aggregate boat length.

I'm glad someone else remembers that rule of thumb about line size. My point above was that most RC boats seem to vastly underestimate the size of line needed, since distance over the water can be very difficult to measure. That's why I was taught the motor-at-2-kt rule to give 200 feet of line size per minute of motoring away from the pin as a way to ensure the line is big enough.

Being the RC boat sure can be a rush at the start. We used to be the RC boat for our club's main and jib fleet years ago, back when we owned a 23 foot trailerable. The way we assigned the course for the race was with a white board tied to the stern rail of the RC boat. (To give the order of the buoys to be rounded.) It used to be very unsettling to have the club's biggest boat "Dolphin" (a 55 footer) bear down on the transom of our little 23 footer at 8 kts to get close enough to read the board.

 

[Mike Thomas]

RD Duty

Loren, Ted and Steve

Thanks for the clarification on recall and line length. Based on your line formula I know that we had some short lines last summer.

In as far a recalls and aggressive starts. In the 12 races I did last year there was not one re-call or re-start for that matter. I guess that means:

1) The RC boat usually starts drinking early
2) We're not racing that aggressively
3) The RC captain wants to be nice to everyone so they'll be nice to him next week.

Either way. I'm guessing I don't have to worry too much about it.

Thanks once again for all the help guys.

Mike T

 

[escapade]

more RC stuff

Mike
If you do not already have one get a copy of the current Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) from USSAILING. It will give you all the info you'll need on the appropriate flag sequence and protocol. Don't try to memorize everything, just look at the start flag section. If you can get that right everyone will be happy (or at least they won't have a ligimate bitch!). As far as having a bouy off the stern of the RC boat, if it is listed in the sailing instructions then it is a mark of the course and if anyone hits it they will have to exonerate themselves. If it's not in the instructions then they don't and your fair game. Timing on the flags is VERY inportant. Your job is to get them up & down at the exact time. Sound signals, though nice, are secondary. We ussually reference to GPS time but the flags are gospel!
BTW, there is a photo of the boat Steve mentioned (Dolphin) on the SBYRA.com website in the photo's section. It shows Dolphin (54 ft Mull) T-boning his daughter (33ft Farr) on the starting line. OUCH!!! Definitely an overly aggressive start!
Otherwise I hope you enjoy your role as committee. It's can be a lot of fun.
Have fun & sail fast
Bud E34 "Escapade"

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

The problem with making the bouy on your stern a mark of the course through the SI's is that once it is a mark of the course certain rights come into play. Namely room and the whole 2 boat length issue which do not apply to starting marks.

 

[escapade]

bouy

Sailing World had an article covering this in the last? issue. If it's attached to he RC vessel and listed as such it is treated as part of the RC vessel effectively giving said RC vessel a degree of protection from an overly aggressive starter. Not a gurantee by any means but helps to keep them 10 to 15 ft away. They used that at the St. Pete NOOD's this year, BTW.
Have fun & sail fast
Bud E34 "Escapade"

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Thats funny, I should read the article because at the U.S. Sailing Race Management seminar I went to last weekend the U.S. Sailing representative told us the opposite. Guess this is what makes the RRS so much fun to read...

 

[escapade]

Obviously there was a question on this or there wouldn't have been an article covering it. Another thing to keep the protest rooms busy! And then they wonder why people are reluctant to get involved with yacht racing. So many obscure rules that can be twisted around. It enough to confuse a Philadelphia lawyer.
BTW, I took the Race Management course 4 years ago, also. A rather intense 8 hour day! Learned a lot but there is still a lot more to know. Oh well!
Have fun & sail fast
bud E34 "Escapade"

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Bud you hit the nail on the head here. There is so much uncertainty to the rules covering "professional" sailors and advertising that they dont put it in the RRS anymore. They advise you to refer to an online version for ISAF stuff that is updated often. One guy joked by asking how often during a regatta does the RC need to check these rules???