Beta 30 repower in a 1986 E35 mk3

[Christian Williams]

Skookum is a Chinook Jargon word that has historical use in the Pacific Northwest. It has a range of meanings, commonly associated with an English translation of "strong" or "monstrous". The word can mean "strong", "greatest", "powerful", "ultimate", or "brave".

Added to personal vocabulary.

 

[K2MSmith]

I’m interested in repowering as well . I bought my boat going in that it was the original motor and needed some TLC. ( If i can wait long enough maybe electric (?) ) . It seems that if I went with diesel, beta would be a good option and I would probably take on the install myself ( maybe with some extra labor ) . I’m wondering though , I have less space than you do in my E33 compartment. I was hoping I could get an engine with at least the power of the M25 but in a slightly smaller package so my engine compartment would not be as cramped and the new engine more serviceable. I’m starting to rethink the beta 30 choice . Maybe time to look at their dimensions/specs .

 

[Nick J]

OK next part of the project is modifying the engine compartment to clear the front of the engine. Because I ordered the normal engine mount configuration, the engine stuck out a little bit in the front. Couldn't move it any further back or the rear mounts would be off the rails.

Since the engine only stuck out too far near the top, I figured out to add some long wedges and just tilt the front cover out 2 1/2" at the top, enough to clear. Could have made it an inch less, but wasn't willing to give up the soundproofing on the front hatch. I also had to cut off 1 1/4" from the bottom of the front cover since it was now "shorter" being more vertical. The top cover will slide forward and I'm making a fill piece which will fit in at the back.

The next trick was I had to cut some clearance notches in the companionway ladder but that thing is plenty Skookum enough that it won't be missed. When done you shouldn't be able to tell any difference at a casual glance from the original.

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Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

Kevin,

The new engine looks great. Your first picture perfectly shows something that has always confused me about the 35-3. The prop shaft is center line, but from inside the engine compartment, it looks like it is angled towards port (when looking aft). I can't figure out what's perpendicular to center line and what's at an angle. Your pic shows the fiberglass cross support is at an angle, but it doesn't explain why the top of my engine compartment doesn't look perpendicular. It would be interesting to hear what the design constraints were that lead to this configuration. I'm guessing it's little details like this that leads to the 35-3 feeling much larger than it is without having obvious strange angles throughout the boat (like newer C&Cs or some of the Baltic boats).

 

[Loren Beach]

I’m interested in repowering as well . I bought my boat going in that it was the original motor and needed some TLC. ( If i can wait long enough maybe electric (?) ) . It seems that if I went with diesel, beta would be a good option and I would probably take on the install myself ( maybe with some extra labor ) . I’m wondering though , I have less space than you do in my E33 compartment. I was hoping I could get an engine with at least the power of the M25 but in a slightly smaller package so my engine compartment would not be as cramped and the new engine more serviceable. I’m starting to rethink the beta 30 choice . Maybe time to look at their dimensions/specs .

In the past I did a lot sailing on a friend's E-33RH, and the stock 21 hp seemed like "enough", however one measures that subjective term.
When we repowered our boat with the Betamarine 25, it has a smaller dimension than our former M25XP (23 hp), and you can study the pix in my several blog entries here for the general 'look' of it.
Note that the more-modern Beta weighs less than our former Universal 23 hp, too, and a little weight reduction is always a Good Thing.

While there are rare times when more HP might help a little - for any boat - your boat is lighter than ours and I would think that the Beta 25 would be plenty enough for it. Also, your hull's stern section is not designed to really utilize any more HP; i.e. once it gets close to 7 kts, the stern will squat more but forward speed will not increase much.
I recall driving the 33RH with the chute up in 20 kts, and we were all thrilled when our speed surged to over 8 kts. Better yet, we were having no round-ups while the nearby C &C 35-3 was doing a full knockdown, more than once.

More about repowering: there is a discussion part of the US Betamarine site and the company owner or his manager offer advice on engine selection. I lurk on it occasionally, and while he can be a bit abrupt in demeanor, he seems quite knowledgeable about what works and what don't.....

 

[K2MSmith]

In the past I did a lot sailing on a friend's E-33RH, and the stock 21 hp seemed like "enough", however one measures that subjective term.
When we repowered to the Betamarine 25, it has a smaller dimension than our former M25XP (23 hp), and you can study the pix in my several blog entries here for the general 'look' of it.
Note that the more-modern Beta weighs less than our former Universal 23 hp, too, and a little weight reduction is always a Good Thing.

While there are rare times when more HP might help a little - for any boat - your boat is lighter than ours and I would think that the Beta 25 would be plenty enough for it. Also, your hull's stern section is not designed to really utilize any more HP; i.e. once it gets close to 7 kts, the stern will squat more but forward speed will not increase much.
I recall driving the 33RH with the chute up in 20 kts, and we were all thrilled when our speed surged to over 8 kts. Better yet, we were having no round-ups while the nearby C &C 35-3 was doing a full knockdown, more than once.

We are fortunate enough to live in an area that has wind and I have not done much motor cruising yet ( partially because I don’t trust the engine ) . To give you an example , I filled my tank last last summer and have been thinking my fuel gauge was malfunctioning ( no hobbs, btw ) because it always shows almost full, I put a dipstick in the tank yesterday just to check it before sailing and it is almost full I’m guessing my engine ( boat almost never left SF bay ) has low hours for its age .
Back to the topic- we did motor quite a bit yesterday and it seems the old engine is comfortable at around 4-5 kts at normal conditions. Yesterday we made 3.5 kts SOG going but that was against the tide . Once we rounded angel island, we were back up to 4.5 kts . My rpm gauge doesn’t work but it’s feels like about 2200. It would be nice to have a bit more headroom on power but I don’t need much more . I think it’s more of an issue of smoothness/vibration. I probably need engine mounts looked at . Maybe the shaft is not perfectly aligned ( or maybe I need a new motor

 

[Loren Beach]

Back to the topic- we did motor quite a bit yesterday and it seems the old engine is comfortable at around 4-5 kts at normal conditions.

In my experience, while cruising under power, buddy boating with an E-33RH, you should be seeing 6+ kts speed thru water. Nothing under 6, in any case. Presumes a decently clean bottom and *proper prop pitch.
*A larger & important drivetrain variable than many owners suspect.

 

[K2MSmith]

In my experience, while cruising under power, buddy boating with an E-33RH, you should be seeing 6+ kts speed thru water. Nothing under 6, in any case. Presumes a decently clean bottom and *proper prop pitch.
*A larger & important drivetrain variable than many owners suspect.

We have a folding prop; but not sure of the model .( see pic last year when boat was painted by PO) Bottom was just cleaned . I’ve wanted to do a dive to inspect my hull . Maybe I should check if the prop is opening and closing properly. It would be good to find out what I have first so I understand how it’s supposed to work before I poke around underwater.

 

[Kevin A Wright]

Loren,
You are absolutely correct about the squatting stern above 7kts. I quickly noticed that on her maiden voyage. I'm beginning to think I could have done just fine with the B25 and that the lack of power with the M25 was due to the engine going bad in the first place. I never had the opportunity to see the squat before, since the absolute max I could get out of her with the old engine was 6kts on a good day with a clean bottom.
But for the small increase in price and since there was no weight penalty compared to the old engine, I didn't want to go through a repower and then find myself in the same 'boat' I was I before. Since I'm now hitting that 7kts at a comfortable cruising rpm, all is well with the world. Now just have to finish up the cosmetic bits.

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

 

[Christian Williams]

I cannot maintain 7 knots at a comfortable cruising RPM on the E381 even in flat water no wind. The transom drags and I'm pushing near the max of 2800.

Six and a half knots, at 2500 RPM, is much more natural and comfortable.

Maybe it's the prop. I have yet to understand the variation in reported speeds. Somebody just mentioned hitting 7 knots under power in a 28-foot LOA hull. Some day I'll figure it out--theoretical hull speeds, prop pitch, RPMS. Some day....

 

[debonAir]

I'd always planned to upgrade to Beta when the time came.. probably in a few years. Interesting that the 30 needed so much massaging to get into an E35-3. I had assumed it would be about the same size as the 5424 I have. Perhaps the B25 would be a fine replacement. The 5424 has been "OK" unless I am up against a lot of chop and headwind, at which point I can get about 4kts SOG or so, but in regular conditions with a clean bottom 6.5 is easy. Of course it is probably putting out anemic on-the-way-to-the-glue-factory horses at this point. I might replace the injectors and see if that helps.

Kevin I am very interested in what you find going into a stiff headwind with chop with those extra HP. How much room would you have to push the motor aft assuming the rear mounts were a bit more fwd? Please update this tread after she splashes and good luck

 

[Kevin A Wright]

Kevin I am very interested in what you find going into a stiff headwind with chop with those extra HP. How much room would you have to push the motor aft assuming the rear mounts were a bit more fwd? Please update this tread after she splashes and good luck

I'm pretty sure we could have fit it in if Id have had a different mount configuration. I did have to shorten the shaft 4" as it was because of the tranny I chose, but there were still several inches of room to move aft if needed. And there was PLENTY of room on the top and sides.

Yes I'll have to report back after I hit some weather with it and see how it handles. As it was, her maiden voyage from Port Townsend to Port Orchard was undertaken with absolutely flat water. So really not much of a chance to test her out that way. Also glad I didn't have a failure with the new engine since I'd have been bobbing around for quite awhile waiting for a breath of air to move her.

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

 

[Kevin A Wright]

Ok so finished up the engine compartment modifications, got the fuel gauge in but was still fighting the air leak causing it to stall and die. It started acting up about 2 hours into her maiden voyage with the new engine and slowly got worse to the point it wouldn't run for 2 minutes straight. Figured it was loose fitting somewhere on all the new fuel line which was replaced all the way back to the tank. Spent the last few weekends tightening, changing filters, bleading, retightening, checking restrictions on the fuel return line, yadda yadda yadda.

Finally got smart and brought a 5 gal jerry can of diesel and started bypassing things. Turns out the fuel tank in the E35-3 draws out of the top so there is a drop leg inside the tank. It is a 2 part standpipe with an aluminum fitting to screw into the tank and then a plastic drop leg. That plastic had hardened over the years and maybe dried out after 6 months of no fuel in it while the engine was being replaced. It was very loose at the top where it attached to the aluminum fitting. New $15 part on order and now 99% sure I'll be able to finally take her out and start using her again by next weekend!

As usual, dirt simple problem once you figure it out. That is just the one place I never thought to look.

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

 

[Christian Williams]

Good catch. That is about the end of the chain in fuel line troubleshooting, not sure I' have ever figured it out.

 

[K2MSmith]

I'm pretty sure we could have fit it in if Id have had a different mount configuration. I did have to shorten the shaft 4" as it was because of the tranny I chose, but there were still several inches of room to move aft if needed. And there was PLENTY of room on the top and sides.

Yes I'll have to report back after I hit some weather with it and see how it handles. As it was, her maiden voyage from Port Townsend to Port Orchard was undertaken with absolutely flat water. So really not much of a chance to test her out that way. Also glad I didn't have a failure with the new engine since I'd have been bobbing around for quite awhile waiting for a breath of air to move her.

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

What was your experience with the new motor ? Was it a lot smoother/quieter ? Some people have said it was like getting a new boat....

 

[Kevin A Wright]

I haven't taken her out since I did the initial move from Port Townsend to Port Orchard because of this air in the fuel problem. Now that I think I've sorted that out I hope to be able to post some more feedback in the coming months.

I will say the first 2 hours of that trip (before the air leak surfaced) she ran very smooth. Noticeably more power and I was cruising at 7kts at 2800 rpm whereas I could only make 6 before. If I ran it up above 2800 it just pushed my transom down into the water without gaining much, but I was also running dry water tanks and with a normal ballast load she might do a little better.

Couldn't comment on being quieter since I was running without the engine compartment covered. Now that I've modified that I'll also be able to see how she sounds.

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

 

[Kevin A Wright]

Ok I finally got the engine compartment back together, found the air leak in the fuel system (in the pickup hose inside the fuel tank of all places!) and took the wife out for her first spin with the new engine last weekend. Her first comment (without prompting) was "Wow, this is a lot quieter than the old one!"

So Loren, you are correct, the Beta's seem quieter than the old M25's.

And man I have all the power I could ever need, and more than I can probably use with the Beta 30. Could have gone with the 25, but didn't want to repower and then find I was still underpowered.

Hope to get her out again this weekend for some more testing.

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

 

[Hagar2sail]

A little late to the party but we have the original M25 in our 35-3. I have confirmed that it can get us to “squatting hard” at wide open which for our prop is around 2400 rpm pushing just over 7 knots. Suspect we have the original two blade prop no idea on pitch. We cruise nicely on a flat water day at around 5.5-6 knots at 1700rpm and all seems good with the world.

 

[Hagar2sail]

Good catch. That is about the end of the chain in fuel line troubleshooting, not sure I' have ever figured it out.

I don’t think I would have found that for a loooong time either. Good thinking with the can of fuel!

 

[Hagar2sail]

Ok I finally got the engine compartment back together, found the air leak in the fuel system (in the pickup hose inside the fuel tank of all places!) and took the wife out for her first spin with the new engine last weekend. Her first comment (without prompting) was "Wow, this is a lot quieter than the old one!"

So Loren, you are correct, the Beta's seem quieter than the old M25's.

And man I have all the power I could ever need, and more than I can probably use with the Beta 30. Could have gone with the 25, but didn't want to repower and then find I was still underpowered.

Hope to get her out again this weekend for some more testing.

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

Thanks for the excellent write up. Good to know the options and challenges if we have to cross this bridge in the future. Enjoy the new and quiet beta!

 

[1911tex]

A little late to the party but we have the original M25 in our 35-3. I have confirmed that it can get us to “squatting hard” at wide open which for our prop is around 2400 rpm pushing just over 7 knots. Suspect we have the original two blade prop no idea on pitch. We cruise nicely on a flat water day at around 5.5-6 knots at 1700rpm and all seems good with the world.

I second this quote. Our original M25 5421 confirms 1700rpm as ideal with our E35-3.