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Bilge pump problems

wayne n

New Member
Hi I'm wayne n. I have an ericson 30+ my problem is that when the water is pumped out (all the way to the stern above the waterline) it drains back when the pump shuts off so there is always 3/4 of an inch left sitting in the bilge. Research is not in favor of a back-flow valve on these types of electric auto pumps.
Thanks
wayne n.
 

Emerald

Moderator
I expect you have a centrifugal pump that is pushing the water up from below. since there's nothing behind that column of water, when you run out of water, as soon as you shut it off, it will drain back whatever was in the line.

I blieve most Ericsons came with a manual Whale Gusher pump. This will do better at sucking out the last drops, since it is pulling the water up to the pump and then out. Even so, it will still drain back a tad too.
 
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wayne n

New Member
I expect you have a centrifugal pump that is pushing the water up from below. since there's nothing behind that column of water, when you run out of water, as soon as you shut it off, it will drain back whatever was in the line.

I blieve most Ericsons came with a manual Whale Gusher pump. This will do better at sucking out the last drops, since it is pulling the water up to the pump and then out. Even so, it will still drain back a tad too.
It,s a small rule auto pump that runs off a float. Is there no way to prevent the backflow?
 

Emerald

Moderator
That pump has a rotor in the bottom that is pushing the water, so it's about impossible to stop backflow. You could try a check valve positioned right after the pump, but not sure how this will really work out.
 

csoule13

Member III
Get a small hand pump to get that last little bit(like the west marine oil manual oil pump), or a small shop vac/buckethead vac. Works like a charm.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Get a small hand pump to get that last little bit(like the west marine oil manual oil pump), or a small shop vac/buckethead vac. Works like a charm.

For the nuisance water that comes down the inside of the mast in the winter I have been using a 'turkey baster' to slurp it out for many seasons.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I have a diaphragm bilge pump--they have internal check valves, so no run-back.

The photo shows the initial setup. But the TAFG makes four separate bilge compartments and the strumbox pickup was only in one of them. Limber holes leave some water in each.

1-Bilge with Water Witch.jpg

I removed the strumbox and added five feet to the lightweight bilge pickup hose, incorporating an in-line debris filter. .

Now the hose will reach all the way to the mast, to suck out water under there, or in any compartment.

bilge hose  long.jpg

The lengthened hose normally rests coiled in the main bilge, weighted at the end so as to remain low, where the automatic Water Witch can empty rainwater.

Manually suctioning sections with this system gets out most water, so that only a few paper towels are required for the absolute dryness my psychiatrist said would make me feel better and possibly stave off expensive hospitalization.

We all know that some water in the bilge is normal. I don't know why it drives us nuts.
 
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alcodiesel

Bill McLean
Isn't there a 12 step program for that?

I am powerless over my bilge and my life is unmanageable.

I, for one, am grateful that a wet bilge doesn't bother me. I've got a lot of crazy on my plate and I certainly don't need another thing to add to it.

Thank you for sharing.


By the way a PO has a check valve in the overboard line and even though there is some back flow, it seems to work just fine.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
The argument against check valves is that they can clog.

If so, no water passes through and the pump doesn't work.

They can clog with debris, a gooey spill, or just over time and the buildup of glop.

If a check valve is used in a bilge line, it should have easy access and the owner owner should be aware of the issue.

Can you cut out the check valve if it clogs? Will the hose still reach the bilge?

Not to be a worry wart. Just think it through.

The real purpose of bilge pumps is to enable skippers to sleep while at home two hours away.
 

Filkee

Sustaining Member
I've been avoiding talking about this and distracting myself with pretty wood, but my Rule Mate bilge pumps keep blowing fuses.

I have one in the shower and one in the main and they are both "automatic" which means they come on every three minutes or so which compels me to turn them off at night because they're even more annoying than a flapping halyard.

They're wired directly to the battery and it seems that the main bilge one is subservient to the shower one--which means they usually cut out before the job is done in the main. There are three in-line fuses plus the fuse in the switch in the head (which doesn't blow). The wiring seems fairly young and secure with the exception of a brown butt connector between the two pumps which feels like it would be vulnerable to moisture. Generally, it's the 3AMP one to the shower bilge that goes first.

I hold out hope that if I just swap out the old pumps, my life will be 28 percent better, but I'm probably in denial about something horrific.
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Mine started blowing fuses when there was some ice in the line, restricting flow. Upon closer examination, I discovered that the fuse that comes in the Rule pump control switch was smaller than what was specified for the Rule 2000 pump.
Actually, I've procured a push-button breaker to replace that fuse holder - still waiting in my "to do" box. IIRC, it's going to involve some tricky soldering - not a straight-forward swap.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
they are both "automatic" which means they come on every three minutes or so which compels me to turn them off at night.....
Don't know if you were serious or joking about the "every three minutes" comment, but that sounds way too frequent to be good news. If true, best case might be that the switches are set too low in the bilge and that, when done pumping, the water that backflows in the lines is enough to fill the bilges to where the switches are almost ready to go immediately "on" again. Bad news, of course would be a leak/ingress somewhere that needs to be dealt with.

I raised my bilge pump switches to a level just about 3" below the TOP of the bilge. That way, even after heavy rains, I can usually get to the boat (say, weekly) and pump out 2-5 gal of water from the bilge by hand, knowing the bilge pumps have not even been triggered at that point. But, I'm on a buoy, so battery conservation is critical to me. If no rain, the bilges stay nearly completely dry. Also, most of the new electronic switches (versus the old float type) will keep the pump running for 10-15 seconds after the float is triggered off. This helps offset much of the backlfow problem, and might allow your existing pumps to do a better job of emptying the main bilge.

Also, a 3 Amp fuse sounds pretty low. I think the Rule 800 uses a 5A fuse and the Rule 500 a 4A. That would be an easy fix for the fuse blowing. The Blue Seas Circuit Wizard http://circuitwizard.bluesea.com/ shows that even 16 ga wire can handle much higher than 5A even over a 25 ft run, so Rule apparently makes those fuse recommendation to protect their pumps.
 
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Bob Robertson

Member III
A bunch of years ago the boat was heeled and I pumped the bilge. After I shut off the pump water siphoned back into the bilge. After that experience I put in a check valve in the bilge pump line. I never had the siphoning problem again and the bilge is much drier after pumping it. No water running back through the bilge pump line.
 

Filkee

Sustaining Member
Ah, but on my boat there is no float. I’ve heard it referred to as a “sniffer”. It switches on for a second or two and if it doesn’t grab water it switches off again. Sometimes I dump water in the shower so it will suck long enough to drain the main.
 

jtsai

Member III
You must have a "smart" Rule bilge pump. It has an internal computer chip that cycles on every 2 1/2 minutes, then quickly shuts down if no water is detected. That 1/2 second sound used to drive me nuts at night but it lets you know the bilge pump is functional. My recent trip crossing the Pamlico Sound to Ocracoke Island taught me to appreciate that annoyance.
 

wynkoop

Member III
I used to have a jabsco water puppy with no automatic switch mounted above the bilge that sucked the water out and prevented backflow on it's own. I installed a water witch and was happy with it until one day it died and I got to the boat to find water above the cabin sole.

When the water puppy died a few years after I got the boat I replaced it with a Rule in the bilge pump and quickly found enough water was left in the line to trigger the water witch and it just kept cycling, so I installed a check valve in line where the barbed splice was installed at the location of the water puppy.

I have had this configuration for about 30 years with no failure. I do have a double barb that I can sub back in for the check valve if it gets jammed and I need to pump right away. If I do that the water witch gets disconnected and I go to just manual.

I actually fill the bilge with detergent and fresh water at least once a year, then take the boat out to bounce around before pumping the bilges. I am not sure if that is why I have never had a problem, but that is my story.

In the spring I plan to add a second bilge pump discharge on the starboard side to mirror the port stern discharge I have now. I will put a second pump in the bilge with it's water witch mounted higher as a precaution against failure of the lower pump. At the moment my manual pump is a whale gusher mounted on the bottom of the aft starboard settee storage area cover. In case of emergency it gets pulled out and the intake stuck in the bilge and the output goes to the cockpit drain in the stern. I really have not found a good fixed mount home for it and this way I can use it on the dink as well. At the moment it has that horrid plastic hose, but it works. I have had to use it a couple of times. It worked fine.
 
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