Bilge system design question

[JPS27]

Greetings from a new forum member and relatively new owner of a 1977 Ericson27. While I'm not entirely new to boats I am brand new to boat ownership. I have been lurking and learning on this site for a few months learning and waiting to ask my dumb questions. I love my boat and in many ways its in great shape for it's age. Nice upgrades etc. But it's also a project. I'll spare you my engine and engine replacement questions for another thread, but I'm tackling some easier issues right now.

It seems that the original bilge pump design for this boat was a manual bilge pump (only) that exited out stern t-hull. Is that true? Plans I have found seem to indicate as such. I ask because this boat has a "bilge pump to nowhere" or more accurately the end of hose is -- I guess -- supposed to be held over the sink and water exits out the sink t-hull. Seems like a flaw, especially since my manual bilge does not work. I can't imagine sailing the boat and holding the bilge hose over the sink down below.

I can't imagine connecting the bilge directly to the sink hose with a "T". I would like to find an above waterline solution to hook my bilge pump up to. Could I tie it in to the manual bilge hosing back by the stern? Bad idea? Other thoughts?

Thanks. And thanks to this site for keeping despair at bay and keeping my motivation up!

Jay

 

[G Kiba]

I rebuilt the manual bilge pump. It works great! However, I really would like an additional electric pump. I too thought to "T" into the manual line near the transom - but finding a "T" for the different diameter hoses has been a fail. Best and easiest solution is to just add another exit through the transom. From a previous post, I saw that someone mounted their electric pump on a frame that reached down into the seemingly endless depths of our E27 bilges. The frame affixes the pump location, can support the hose routing (wire ties), and makes maintenance a breeze. Great idea - just have not done it yet because I'm too busy enjoying the season. Maybe this winter? or the next?

BTW Welcome to the site! There is also an E27 specific Facebook page!

 

[paul culver]

I think for safety the outflow from the bilge pump should be above the water line. On my E29 that is accomplished through a fitting on the transom close to the exhaust fitting. So if you want both manual and automatic I think you should T into that line.

Paul
E29 "Bear"

 

[JPS27]

Thanks Grant and Paul. I was thinking about mounting the bilge pump I have to a frame as you described to get it lower in the bilge. It is deep down there, man. And I'm leaning toward creating a new t-hull to avoid having to deal with different size hoses. I already had that headache trying to replace a degraded hose from the sink to a barb on a seacock. Also seems prudent to keep the manual and electric bilge pump systems separate, but I have no reason other than gut feeling on that one. Thanks for the heads up on the fb page too. More questions to come..

Jay

 

[Loren Beach]

Pumps and Thru Hull Exits

A quick look on line for the Cat. One Monohull requirements finds that those exits should be separate.

While most of us will not ever upgrade to this heightened level of emergency preparedness, it's helpful to see just what the minimum really is.
Note that the Ericson's and Olson's that have repeatedly raced to Hawaii from SF have done all of this preparation.

Below is just a short copy-pasted part of the regs that seems to apply to this discussion.

By the 80's, Ericson was installing, as standard equipment, a large manual bilge pump that could be operated from the normal helm position. My boat came with this feature and so did the E-38/200 and the E-32-3 in our moorage.
While not providing all the pumping capability that the regs call for, this was/is a quantum leap upwards from the cheaper production boats of the era.

Loren
_________________________________
ISAF OFFSHORE SPECIAL REGULATIONS
JANUARY 2014 - DECEMBER 2015

3.23 Bilge Pumps and Buckets
3.23.1 No bilge pump may discharge into a cockpit unless that cockpit opens aft to
the sea.
**
3.23.2 Bilge pumps shall not be connected to cockpit drains. (OSR 3.09) **
3.23.3 Bilge pumps and strum boxes shall be readily accessible for maintenance and
for clearing out debris
**
3.23.4 Unless permanently installed, each bilge pump handle shall be provided with a
lanyard or catch or similar device to prevent accidental loss
**
3.23.5 The following shall be provided:
a) two permanently installed manual bilge pumps, one operable from above, the
other from below deck. Each pump shall be operable with all cockpit seats,
hatches and companionways shut and shall have permanently installed
discharge pipe(s) of sufficient capacity to accommodate simultaneously both
pumps
Mo0,1,2
f) two buckets of stout construction each with at least 9 litres (2 UK gallons, 2.4
US gallons) capacity. Each bucket to have a lanyard.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

I rebuilt the manual bilge pump. It works great! However, I really would like an additional electric pump. I too thought to "T" into the manual line near the transom - but finding a "T" for the different diameter hoses has been a fail. Best and easiest solution is to just add another exit through the transom. From a previous post, I saw that someone mounted their electric pump on a frame that reached down into the seemingly endless depths of our E27 bilges. The frame affixes the pump location, can support the hose routing (wire ties), and makes maintenance a breeze. Great idea - just have not done it yet because I'm too busy enjoying the season. Maybe this winter? or the next?

BTW Welcome to the site! There is also an E27 specific Facebook page!

It may have been me that posted about attaching the pump to a frame. In my case it was a "L" bracket. So since I am often asked about my Bilge System on my E-27 I thought I would whip up a little diagram.

Here's basically what I did:

This is the best system I have found. Allows me to be able to service my bilge pump without having to reach all the way to the bottom of the sump by bolting the pump to a “L” bracket attached to a stick. You can also secure the wires and hose from the pump to the stick. Glue the float switch to the top of the pump with 3M 5200. Note that there will always be a bit of water below the float switch, but this can be removed with installation of a manual override switch.

Also! Inline Check Valve
This is a must to keep water from flowing back into the bilge for the electric pump. I do not use a check valve for the manual Whale pump.


Please see attachment.

 

[G Kiba]

Nice Jeff! Nice. Couldn't be any clearer than if you did the work for me.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Nice Jeff! Nice. Couldn't be clear than if you did the work for me.

Actually there is one mistake on my first diagram. It's now corrected. Also adding the correct attachment to this post. It is not a "anti siphon valve". It is a "Inline Check Valve" you need to use.

Inline Check Valve
This is a must to keep water from flowing back into the bilge for the electric pump. I do not use a check valve for the manual Whale pump. Otherwise the electric pump will keep cycling. You don't want it to do that since it needs to be directly connected to your battery!

I am also putting it up on the Ericson 27 Owners Facebook Page as a .pdf

 

[JPS27]

3.23.5 The following shall be provided:
a) ... Each pump shall be operable with all cockpit seats,
hatches and companionways shut and shall have permanently installed
discharge pipe(s) of sufficient capacity to accommodate simultaneously both
pumps
Mo0,1,2
f) two buckets of stout construction each with at least 9 litres (2 UK gallons, 2.4
US gallons) capacity. Each bucket to have a lanyard.

Loren thanks for this information. It's great. What does the above quote mean (3.23.5)?

 

[JPS27]

Thanks for the awesome diagram, Jeff. This novice really appreciates it!

 

[JPS27]

Inline Check Valve
This is a must to keep water from flowing back into the bilge for the electric pump. I do not use a check valve for the manual Whale pump. Otherwise the electric pump will keep cycling. You don't want it to do that since it needs to be directly connected to your battery!

Jeff, one more question (for now). My manual system (which again isn't currently operating) uses I believe 1.5" bilge hose. The white rigid type, corrugated. But my elec bilge pump his the 1 or 1.25" flexible black bilge hose. What do you use? Thanks.

Jay

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Thanks for the awesome diagram, Jeff. This novice really appreciates it!

Glad to be of help JPS27. Hopefully it helps you and others. When I first acquired my old E-27 years ago all I had was the manual Whale Gusher bilge pump, thank Gawd it worked because I had a leaky raw water exhaust system, so I would take on water while under power. I am surprised to hear you don't have a exit thru hull fitting for your pump. After first fixing the exhaust, number 2 project was to add a automatic electric pump. It took me a while to get to the current set up I have now. The deep sump bilges on our boats is a bit different. Awkward to service, but our boats stay very dry inside because most water accumulates at that low point.

 

[Loren Beach]

Loren thanks for this information. It's great. What does the above quote mean (3.23.5)?

To me it calls for a separate exit (thru hull) fitting for each pump.
And... Our 80's model has the manual pump operable with the cabin hatch closed and boards in place, i.e. by the (worried...) helms person.
:0


Loren

 

[geoatk]

Bilge Pump

I have a similar system in my Ericson 27 but my switch is on the plate behind the pump. My manual pump's hose just sits in there and exits out the side near the rail near the pump handle. My electric pump exits out the transom about 3 inches about the exhaust. I wish I would have mounted it a little lower.

I put my wire splices in a junction box from home depot, plugged the ends of the box with pvc pipe plugs and then used silicone to the the holes. I also put my switch in a bigger junction box so I didn't have to cut holes in my boat. It doesn't look beautiful but I wanted to keep my connections dry. The switch box is mounted inside the cupboard wire under the sink.

I am having problems with my pump. How high did Jeff mount his check valve? I have mine about a foot from the pump but there is so much water in it, the pump is having trouble pushing it open. I think I have it too low. My packing glad is leaking so now it has become a bigger issue.