Binnacle movement / cockpit sole flexing

[southofvictor]

Surveyed an E38-200 yesterday and found the binnacle felt less solid than I’d like. It moves forward/aft and seems to flex the cockpit sole at the base. No obvious signs of water intrusion from soundings or meter readings of entire cockpit sole. Underside of sole sole looks clean as well. With me pushing on pedestal guard and surveyor below he said he saw the backing plate assembly moving as the sole flexed.

Only thing I can think of is that the backing plate seems small relative to the base it supports, but I’ve seen pics on this site of the same backing plate and haven’t heard mention of a similar concern. Also not sure it could be made much larger at the forward end before coming up against the lip of the raised portion of the sole.

Has anyone out there dealt with a similar situation? If so I’d love to hear your thoughts on causes / remedies. Thanks!

A few pics attached but unfortunately no good video showing what I’m talking about. I need to learn to be a better videographer.

 

[Loren Beach]

Our boat was built in '88. The cockpit sole is all plywood coring in the aft section where the wheel is mounted. Solid as all get out.
Note the if water gets in around the four half inch base bolts, the fastenings that hold the guard feet, or around the rudder head plate, it can soften the coring.
We were lucky that 98% of the coring in the rear of the cockpit was dry. I did the over-drill-epoxy fill-redrill for every single hole.
EY had sealed all of the parts/fasteners with 5200, which was arduous to remove. The stuff really works, for about 25 to 30 years.

Way Too Few owners re-bed their deck fittings in a timely manner, and that's a (bad pun) rotten shame.
I would advise an inspection with percussive hammer and moisture meter.
I have crewed a delivery on a 38-200, and the wheel and base is totally solid on that boat, like ours.

 

[Christian Williams]

I guess the bolts aren't loose....

The 381 cockpit and steering is quite different, and has Yacht Specialties/Merriman steering. But for what it's worth, the pedestal guard feet and base seem spread more.

We need to hear from 38-200 owners.

 

[Martin King]

Flexing the cockpit sole? Sounds like classic core rot to me.

 

[southofvictor]

Yeah @Martin King that’s my concern. Might be wishful thinking that the hammering and moisture meter didn’t show any signs of it. Thinking that pulling the backing plate and hammering / moisture testing from the bottom might be the only way to test if it’s rotten just right under the pedestal. Seems old that it would be that localized and not show close by the base, but it’s all I can think of if it’s not a know issue.

 

[southofvictor]

I guess the bolts aren't loose....

The 381 cockpit and steering is quite different, and has Yacht Specialties/Merriman steering. But for what it's worth, the pedestal guard feet and base seem spread more.

We need to hear from 38-200 owners.

View attachment 41005

Yes @Christian Williams the raised sole section on the 38-200 seems like it limits the base of support somewhat. That’s why I wondered if anyone else with that configuration experienced the same thing.

 

[southofvictor]

Our boat was built in '88. The cockpit sole is all plywood coring in the aft section where the wheel is mounted. Solid as all get out.
Note the if water gets in around the four half inch base bolts, the fastenings that hold the guard feet, or around the rudder head plate, it can soften the coring.
We were lucky that 98% of the coring in the rear of the cockpit was dry. I did the over-drill-epoxy fill-redrill for every single hole.
EY had sealed all of the parts/fasteners with 5200, which was arduous to remove. The stuff really works will, for about 25 to 30 years.

Way Too Few owners re-bed their deck fittings in a timely manner, and that's a (bad pun) rotten shame.
I would advise an inspection with percussive hammer and moisture meter.
I have some a delivery on a 39-200, and the wheel is totally solid, like our boat.

@Loren Beach thats good to hear about the plywood. Bummer about people not re-bedding in a timely (or proper) way. Just about all of the boat felt very solid. Its a 1998. Two small areas -one side deck and one cabin top - and the anchor locker hatch were the only other bad spots we found. The stanchions look due for rebedding.

 

[Bolo]

I don't have a E38 but rather a E32. However, about four years ago I noticed a certain "musyness" around the backing plates that secured the binnacle guard to the cockpit deck. After more examination it I discovered that water had intruded around the guard fasteners (at the deck) and into the areas where the binnacle was bolted down. In the end the binnacle was removed and refurbished along with the binnacle guard. The water damaged under-deck was cut out, without violating the cockpit floor and all replaced with new wood filler and glass. I didn't do the work myself because I live a distance from the boat and this kind of work (back then, not now) was a bit beyond my comfort level. Cockpit deck is solid as a rock now. Water intrusion at the binnacle guard deck connection seem to me to be more likely than around the binnacle base itself. BTW, for whatever reason, moister meter should nothing but the damage was obvious.

 

[southofvictor]

I don't have a E38 but rather a E32. However, about four years ago I noticed a certain "musyness" around the backing plates that secured the binnacle guard to the cockpit deck. After more examination it I discovered that water had intruded around the guard fasteners (at the deck) and into the areas where the binnacle was bolted down. In the end the binnacle was removed and refurbished along with the binnacle guard. The water damaged under-deck was cut out, without violating the cockpit floor and all replaced with new wood filler and glass. I didn't do the work myself because I live a distance from the boat and this kind of work (back then, not now) was a bit beyond my comfort level. Cockpit deck is solid as a rock now. Water intrusion at the binnacle guard deck connection seem to me to be more likely than around the binnacle base itself. BTW, for whatever reason, moister meter should nothing but the damage was obvious.

Thanks @Bolo. How much did it run to have it repaired by someone else? Sounds like you were happy with the result based on it being solid now, any unforeseen problems you ran into in the process?

 

[Bolo]

Thanks @Bolo. How much did it run to have it repaired by someone else? Sounds like you were happy with the result based on it being solid now, any unforeseen problems you ran into in the process?I’ll have to look up what I paid but I remember thinking, “worth every penny”. As I said, I didn’t do the work, so any unforeseen problems where not my problem, just paying the bill. I do a lot of my own work on the boat, not because I can’t afford to hire a pro, but mostly because I think it’s necessary to be familiar with as much of the construction and functions of the boat as possible. But sometimes the work is best left to a qualified (important) pro when it’s beyond your skill set or physical abilities. At 70 I’m in fairly good health and can still lift heavy weight but still need to be careful. That’s why I don’t ”go up the stick” any more, as one example. I just don’t bounce as well as I use to. @Bolo. How much did it run to have it repaired by someone else? Sounds like you were happy with the result based on it being solid now, any unforeseen problems you ran into in the process?

The work costs me just over $2k (repairing the delaminated deck and refurbishing the binnacle) but I remember thinking, “worth every penny”. As I said, I didn’t do the work, so any unforeseen problems where not my problem, just paying the bill. I do a lot of my own work on the boat, not because I can’t afford to hire a pro, but mostly because I think it’s necessary to be familiar with as much of the construction and functions of the boat as possible. But sometimes the work is best left to a qualified (important) pro when it’s beyond your skill set or physical abilities. At 70 I’m in fairly good health and can still lift heavy weight with the best of them but still need to be careful. That’s why I don’t ”go up the stick” any more, as one example. I just don’t bounce as well as I use to.

 

[southofvictor]

Thanks Bob and thanks everyone for the quick responses. Looks like we are going ahead with the purchase so I’ll follow up with what I find as I dig into it more. This online community seems like a huge benefit to Ericson owners. Thanks to all of those who keep it going!

 

[p.gazibara]

Might be a great time to remove that wheel and go to a tiller. These boats are a blast to steer with a tiller, at least the ones with the rudder upgrade.

 

[southofvictor]

Might be a great time to remove that wheel and go to a tiller. These boats are a blast to steer with a tiller, at least the ones with the rudder upgrade.

Interesting idea, we have a tiller on our cat rigged 21 footer and I love it. Not sure my wife would go for it on this boat though, she likes wheel steering.

 

[goldenstate]

FWIW: If the boat was built in 1998 it is not technically an Ericson 38-200 as Ericson went belly up in 1990.

Is this a Pacific Seacraft-built boat? They have reputations for excellent quality.

 

[southofvictor]

FWIW: If the boat was built in 1998 it is not technically an Ericson 38-200 as Ericson went belly up in 1990.

Is this a Pacific Seacraft-built boat? They have reputations for excellent quality.

I must have transposed digits in my post. It's a 1989.

 

[Loren Beach]

I must have transposed digits in my post. It's a 1989.

My friend here has an '86 E-38-200. It's the one I have sailed on and helped deliver up the coast. Lovely boat!
His has the (optional) Yanmar engine under the enlarged galley module. Does yours have the engine under the companionway?

 

[Bolo]

Thanks Bob and thanks everyone for the quick responses. Looks like we are going ahead with the purchase so I’ll follow up with what I find as I dig into it more. This online community seems like a huge benefit to Ericson owners. Thanks to all of those who keep it going!

Your problem is not an impossible or even highly difficult thing to repair. You just need the time, the knowledge and physical ability to do the work but if you didn’t have any of those things you’d probably not be sailing. Oh yes, and money….you’re gonna need some money but less if you do the work yourself. These boats are worth saving, restoring and making better then they were when new. I love my E-32 and have lots of good memories because of her.

 

[Loren Beach]

One of our site members with a lovely E-35-2, once observed that you only need Time, Money, or Skill. Any two of these will do....

 

[southofvictor]

My friend here has an '86 E-38-200. It's the one I have sailed on and helped deliver up the coast. Lovely boat!
His has the (optional) Yanmar engine under the enlarged galley module. Does yours have the engine under the companionway?

Under the companionway, repowered with a Yanmar 29hp

 

[southofvictor]

Your problem is not an impossible or even highly difficult thing to repair. You just need the time, the knowledge and physical ability to do the work but if you didn’t have any of those things you’d probably not be sailing. Oh yes, and money….you’re gonna need some money but less if you do the work yourself. These boats are worth saving, restoring and making better then they were when new. I love my E-32 and have lots of good memories because of her.

I'm excited for it. Time's probably my shortest supply right now so things are going to take more money. Over the next couple years I plan to have more time available so hopefully do more work myself. My biggest concern for now is finding good people to work on the boat when I can't. I've read / heard quite a few stories lately about people paying to get work done and having it be really poor quality. Want to do my best to avoid that.