Bow Anchor Roller.

[Jeff Asbury]

Has anyone installed a basic off the shelf bow anchor roller on a E-27? I am having difficulty finding a ideal location because of the locations of where the life lines come right down near the bow cleats. I also have a cowl vent in front of the opening (hole) anchor locker. I also have a roller furling drum. I am not interested in going to the expense of the type of roller that is connected to the for stay chain plate. There is also the issue of the fiberglass toe rail. I know I will have to create a base for the roller to bring it up to the toe rail. Photos would be helpful. The attachment is the type I have purchased. Thanks in advance.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

See my problem.

Here are some photos of my bow. See my problem. The roller needs to clear the rub rail over the side.

 

[Mitch]

No good solution

Jeff-
I looked at installing a roller on my 27 too. After much consideration I decided that there was no easy way to install a roller that could be used for anchor storage. The only benefit would be to ease the process of hauling it. With that in mind I reevaulated and decided that the only way to mount one would require the toerail to be ground flush with the deck. It would not be hard- ten minutes with a grinder and a little epoxy to seal the deck back up, but I decided that it was not worth the effort.
Sorry to not be much help, but if you come up with a good solution I'd be very interested in hearing it.

-Mitch

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Yeah, Mitch I thought of that too.

Yeah, Mitch,

I thought of that too. I am not really looking for storage for the anchor. I just need the relief of the roller when I am hauling up the anchor and 40' of chain. I have seen others mount two bolts through the toe rail and fabricate a piece of teak to mount the other two bolts flush with the deck.

 

[jmoses]

anchor roller install

Jeff,

Keep in mind the anchor roller is exposed to a tremendous lever arm when in any type of seas over a light breeze and mild chop. On occasion, the rollers are yanked out or bent when exposed to the shock loads of an anchor rode in 1' + seas. Take a walk around your marina and see what NOT to do as you will most likely see bent rollers, cracked pulpit areas, broken rollers, inadequately supported rollers and a host of other problems. That's a start!

More often than not, boats are equiped with under-sized rollers and/or not sufficiently attached with backing plates and multiple thru-bolts. Since most Ericsons are quite fine in the bow area are also the location of nav. lights, bow cleat, fore stay, and if equipped, roller furler gear and lines. Placing a roller in that deck gear area is a challenge as you've noticed or is it

I ended up purchasing a Windline roller that was as long as I could find (22"?), then welded on an extension plate with sea bord underneath to get back to the deck meat to bolt it down. Up in the toe rail and stem area, there is little room to get nuts on the bolts, a backing plate (or at least large fender washers), let alone get a wrench/socket in there to tighten them up.

My only caution is that two bolts in line is not the best approach as it too now becomes a lever arm at only one point (or line?). As a result, the athwartship line of bolts will create a 'rocking' motion when exposed to much strain or shock loads. But, if just for lunch hooks or lite anchoring, it may suffice.

Here's what I ended up on my E-35 MKII which proved a REAL challenge to get a roller, windlass and CQR stowage up there on the fine bow. Granted it was heavily engineered and more than what you may need, but gives you an idea of what to think about (repalced single mid-ship cleat to 2 outboard ones, replaced 2 cheezy nav lights with one bi-color one on pulpit, extended roller, put in a windlass, etc.).

John M,

Pics
1. = Bow before....crowded with stuff
2. = Bow with roller in place
3. mid way through moving deck gear
6. Almost complete:

 

[Tom Prince]

E27 Bow roller

Jeff,
I am going through the same process with my E27. I have moved the lights up on to the bow pulpit and am now trying to find a roller assembly that will work in the narrow space available even with the lights gone ( the windline units are 3 1/2 wide which is to big without going to some absurd angle). I like the concept of what John did by lenghtening the roller base to get additional support. Having hank on jibs frees me from the proximity to the furler, but I really need to keep the anchor in place and it must be stout as I am frequently anchoring in 15-20 knts with some swell. Also it looks like the existing vent opening has to go as it is in exactly the wrong place. This is the good old boat four step again. You have three projects to do before you get to do what was originally a simple step. I have looked at many boats in the area and have yet to see a good set up on an E27.

 

[Tom Prince]

E27 Bow roller

Jeff,
I am going through the same process with my E27. I have moved the lights up on to the bow pulpit and am now trying to find a roller assembly that will work in the narrow space available even with the lights gone ( the windline units are 3 1/2 wide which is to big without going to some absurd angle). I like the concept of what John did by lenghtening the roller base to get additional support. Having hank on jibs frees me from the proximity to the furler, but I really need to keep the anchor in place and it must be stout as I am frequently anchoring in 15-20 knts with some swell. Also it looks like the existing vent opening has to go as it is in exactly the wrong place. This is the good old boat four step again. You have three projects to do before you get to do what was originally a simple step. I have looked at many boats in the area and have yet to see a good set up on an E27.

Tom Prince

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Thanks for all the great information guys!

Thanks for all the great information guys! It looks like the roller I purchased will not work. I will have to get a longer / stronger one. I also plan to loose the cowl vent to create a better location for the new roller.

 

[gareth harris]

John - is that a 35lb or 45 lb CQR?
Also, since the roller is much longer than the raised/reinforced area of deck at the bow, how did you raise the deck further aft under the roller?
Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[Seth]

Anchors

Here is a wacky thought:

You have heard my feelings on weight in the bow. This bias, plus some other benefits and many years of experience have led me to this solution:

Carry the anchor and rode in the cockpit-you can even buy an anchor mount for the stern rail-so you can leave the anchor as ready to go as a roller would be on the bow.

Here is the reasoning:

The problem with anchoring many boats from the bow is that you a). have a lot of weight in the wrong place, b). Many boats tend to "sail" around on the anchor rode, and c). You do not get very good ventilation in the cabin.


Anchoring off the stern (it helps to make up a bridle so the anchor rode leaves the boat on centerline-rather than from a corner) keeps the boat pointed dead downwind-keeping the boat from "sailing" or "tacking" itself around the anchor rode.

Having the companionway facing the wind obviously makes for MUCH improved cabin ventilation-big comfort gains.

Provided the anchorage is reasonably protected and you are not encountering any significant swells, the boat remains much steadier at anchor and the cabin is much more comfortable. Keeping the weight off the bow is another big improvement.

Personally,. the only time I would "bow anchor" is if the swells are large and I can put out 2 anchors.

You will see this done by experienced cruisers in many parts of the world.

Hope you like it!
Good times,
S

 

[Jeff Asbury]

So what you are saying is...

So what you are saying is to anchor off the stern with the stern to the wind and current?

 

[Seth]

Yup

You got it! Once you have the bridle made up and adjusted, I predict that once you try it you will have a hard time anchoring off the bow(except in certain situations). MUCH more comfortable, nice flow-through ventilation, and no sailing around the anchor!!

The trick is to make up a bridle which fastens to each stern cleat, with some kind of loop/knot in the middle of it. I used to hang a snatch block in the loop and run the rode from one of the cleats through the block, and on into the water. Without the bridle, the anchor attaches to one corner cleat or the other, and it won't settle stern to the wind..

Once this is all set up, though, it is super easy. Another benefit I did not mention is the ease of anchoring when sailing short handed-you can lower the anchor over the stern/side while steering in the cockpit! No more running to the bow while worrying if the boat is head to wind!!

Have fun!

 

[rgoff]

On my '73 E27 I moved the running lights to the bow pulpit and then installed the anchor roller (from West Marine) shown below. In order to have it go out straight, I cut a notch out of the bottom of the roller plate so it would fit over the fitting on the bow for a hanked-on jib. I know this will weaken it some, but hopefully I won't run into that sort of weather while at anchor (which I don't do much).

BTW, with this installation I can't store my Danforth type anchor on the roller w/o it hitting the bow of the boat.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Thank you Ralph,

Thank you Ralph,

Looks like a great solution (Pictures speak louder than words!). Thanks for the photo!. I am a bit disappointed that I will have to go to the effort to change my original running lights, which work perfectly. I may attempt to try Seth's stern anchor solution some time as well.

 

[Seth]

Anchor storage

Jeff,

There are brackets available for storing a Danforth (and maybe a CQR) vertically from a stern pulpit/rail. West Marine may have it, or you may see it on Railmakers' website.

In any case they are off-the-shelf and installed as "clamps" around the rail, so it is very easy and secure...it has been a while since I have seen them-I may do a search later in the day, but they are available, and then the whole process becomes easier..
Good hunting!

 

[ref_123]

Anchoring from the stern

Good discussion, people.

Anchoring from the stern only may have a few bad issues:

- you cannot sail from it without leaving the anchor behind or repositioning lines (not a welcome job in bad weather), so you must rely on your engine and the ability to go in reverse to the anchor location;
- ventilation from the companionway is not really a good thing with winds over 15 knots;
- did you ever see a windlass that fits well on the stern? .

So, stern-only anchoring is good in a specific set of conditions, and may work for you FOR AGES. But if you want to keep versatility (contradicts with racing performance), get on that bow a good, big, heavy anchor... or two! And one on the stern, too. After all, you can always remove them before the race.

Regards,
Stanly

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Seth, I already have the brackets you speak of.

Seth, I already have the brackets you speak of. I am looking for a roller like Ralph's to make the raising of the anchor easier. I have a 16 lb anchor with 40' of chain, takes quite a bit to mussel that up. I use that much because I came un hooked in a couple of gales in the Channel Islands. :eek:

 

[Seth]

stern-to

Stanly,

Fair enough-here is how I deal with some of those issues:

The windlass issue is typically not relevant until you get to a bigger boat-hard to imagine needing it with the typical tackle on a 27 footer.

Once you are anchored (or when you are ready to leave), if it is too breezy to hoist from the stern, or you have a big anchor out, or you DO need a windlass, then simply run a line from the bow to the bitter end of the rode in the stern. When you are ready, cast of the stern and the boat will swing-to-with the rode now coming from the bow-you can then hoist normally.

I am a very big fan (like you) of the 2 anchor system-it allows the boat to swing with the wind without pulling the wrong way on the anchor, and adds security.

Of course you can do this whether you are bow-to or stern-to, and with a line to the bow, you can always let the boat swing bow to the wind if you need to hoist on the bow.

When it gets windy, it CAN get too well-ventilated in the cabin-and this is when the swell picks up as well. While it will be a bit different for everyone, there comes a point where you will be more comfy lying off the bow.

In a crowded harbor, if your boat is one which sails around a lot on the anchor, it is good seamanship to go stern-to when possible (your neighbors will appreciate it, too!).

Cheers!

 

[Seth]

stern-to, too

Jeff,
Something to consider as well: I have seen many boats with the roller mounted on one of the STERN quarters. When hoisting, remove the rode from the bridle and you can hoist through the roller into the cockpit...Or you can use the methods mentioned in my last post..

Just a thought..
Enjoy!
S

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Ask 10 sailors and get 10 answers.

Well as long as this post has now evolved into a anchoring discussion I thought I would share a reply from one of my many sailing mentors. He was a broker for Pacific Seacraft for many years. Here's what he has to say.:


Jeff,

I've never heard of stern-deployed anchoring, except for "lunch hook" style short-term respites from time out on the briny.

No text I've ever read, NONE of them, advocates stern-deployed anchoring.

The system your Internet pal advocates would certainly work in calm cove situations; indeed it may work OK in "our" San Juan Islands most of the time, but Kathy and I have spent anxious nights worrying about our fate, anchor-holding wise, in high wind situations. I would not have wanted anything facing the blow that had more "windage" than our bow.

As to rollers? We've chartered boats without them. Chafe protection and the nylon rode through the forward-most chock/lead worked just fine. Screwing around with the anchor and chain end of the rode was a pain in the arse, but the system worked OK.

If you don't have a proper cleat to tie off the rode...? Consider a monster cleat fastened a couple of feet aft of the bow on the centerline, with massive fasteners and a stout backing plate. You could gaze at it from your V-berth and awake only if the locknuts fall on to your face in the darkest moment of the night.

As to complaints about "sailing around the anchor" -- in the Islands, tide shifts do that whether it's breezy or not. Turning circle judgments consume most of my mental energy when I pick my place in a cove, whether crowded or not. And if I'm concerned about such swinging I row ashore and affix a stern tie line of stout breeding (not unlike the Asbury clan).

Ventilation? When I've "gunkholed" in the hot sweaty climate of, say, the Chesapeake Bay anchorages, or farther south along the ICW, there were so many gawddamned bugs that absent a companionway screen of some sort, we pretty much closed up that pneumonia hole. And out here, it gets cool enough at night that hind-end ventilation is the least of our problems.

At this point I am reduced to my own lowest common denominator and can add no more. Do recall, however, the words of none other than Hal Roth:

Anchoring is 60% the science of hard facts, 35% practice and judgment, and 5% luck.

Beam winds!
Carl