Bowsprit Anyone??

p.gazibara

Member III
Hey all,
I just got a second hand asym and the associated top down furler gear. Since Cinderella came with 4 symmetrical kites, we have never flown an asym..

I’m very excited at the prospect of a roller furled light sail for double handed cruising.

Our bow is so narrow, and our anchor is so trustworthy that I’m not sure how a sprit would fit.

Id love any ideas on where to look for good ones. I have never not used a spin pole before this is new to me.

cheers,
-P
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Hey, Pajo!

I put a SS bail on the end of my anchor-roller, and installed a block there for a tack-line. It is secured with a "fast-pin", doesn't get in the way of my anchor when stowed, and can be removed in an instant when it is time to anchor. It generally gets the tack of the asym "just enough" in front of the headstay to make it work.

Might be worth a try before you put a lot of time or money into installing a bowsprit...

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p.gazibara

Member III
That looks like the best low budget solution I have seen. I wish my anchor roller came out that far. The shop I’m working at gave me a nice piece of carbon tube, maybe I’ll make something from that...
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
...gave me a nice piece of carbon tube.

I've thought about playing with a section of carbon tube. If I were to do it, I'd want a tube that fit into the anchor roller for side-to-side support. I'd glue or fasten a nice thick piece of G10 plate to the aft end of the tube so that it sits on the deck athwartships just in front of the anchor-locker, to spread out the downward load on the aft end of the tube. And then pin (or, more likely, lash with spectra cord) the tube into the forward end of the anchor roller to handle the upward loads.

Haven't done any calcs to figure out what the loads would be (it's fairly low on my project list at this point). The load at the tip will be upward, but there's a significant compression force wanting to push the tube aft that I haven't figured out how to address without drilling holes in the boat. plus obviously side loads if not running DDW. And the "interesting" bit to figure out is that a simple tube-sprit like this is a lever with the fulcrum at/near the mid-point, so the upward load at the forward end generates a proportionate downward force at the aft end.

Given that (at this point) my asym is used for casual running in light air, my current setup works for me. If I wanted to make it work for a broader range of conditions, I'd take a long look at how the E34 here on the forums (I think it is a chicago boat) has set up a removable sprit. I'll see if I can dig up a link.

$.02 (not sure how much that is worth in NZ$)
Bruce
 
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gadangit

Member III
I’m very excited at the prospect of a roller furled light sail for double handed cruising.

cheers,
-P

I've not seen a top down furler in the wild here locally. Two name brand sailmakers locally both discourage, for now, these furlers and recommend a sock. According to them it takes a ton of continuous effort to get the darn sail rolled up.

Our code 0 is on a furler and we opted for the "clicker" which allows you to stop and catch your breath without losing your hard earned furling gains.

One other thought is the furler will work best (most efficiently) with a hard shackle connection which doesn't spin. This really precludes the use of a tack line setup like pictured above. Adjusting the tack is a pretty useful tool when trimming an assym.

Good luck with the bowsprit, I love a good project like that!

Chris
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
I've not seen a top down furler in the wild here locally.

Same here, other than on dedicated race boats.

For this discussion, it's probably worth noting that a top-down furler requires a fair amount of tension on the luff, and that load would probably require a more "engineered" bowsprit (e.g., thru-mounted strut with compression tubes, bobstay, etc).

$.02
 

p.gazibara

Member III
Thanks for the links Bruce! I have been going back and forth from a V configuration to the pole configuration. The V will definitely take a bit more composite work but definitely be stronger.

I have noticed the boat feel like someone pumped the brakes at sea when pounding into trade seas with the anchor up there. For that reason we remove the anchor if we are making a long windward passage. I wonder if the V sprit will have a similar effect. It’s a good bit of surface area for water to push against.

Either way, I’m planning on installing a bobstay to support the upward loads.

I have an old reaching strut cruiser friends gave us because they didn’t know what it was and never used it. It happens to be the same size as the carbon tube, so I’m considering frankensteining the fittings and trying that route. I just have to make one of those rings to support the forward end of the tube. Maybe when the world opens back up.
 

Mark David

Member I
I've not seen a top down furler in the wild here locally. Two name brand sailmakers locally both discourage, for now, these furlers and recommend a sock. According to them it takes a ton of continuous effort to get the darn sail rolled up.

Having helped a friend sort out top down furling, I would describe the experience as similar to patting your head and rubbing your gut....seems simple, difficult to do and always hilarious to watch.

There is very little physical effort required, but everyone involved needs to be concentrating on the process and have a feel for the line tensions. An uneven roll and you get a sail that looks like oranges in a stocking.
 

Cbuydos

Member I
If you have a true asym. you need to have a sprit of some sort to get it out in front of your boat so that it will draw properly. You might be able to get away with a Genaker tacked to you roller, but not a true asym. Take a look at both the Trogear and Selden sprits. Both are great options. If you do your own fabrication, be mindful of the loads!

If you decide the top down furler is too much to deal with let me know. I have an Asym. sock for my Olson 34 that I would be happy to work out a trade. I race and love the sock, but it has its negatives for racing. A top down is something more for my wheel house.

Chris
 

gadangit

Member III
If you have a true asym. you need to have a sprit of some sort to get it out in front of your boat so that it will draw properly. You might be able to get away with a Genaker tacked to you roller, but not a true asym.
Chris
Not sure what your definition of drawing properly is, but we raced against plenty of assym boats, none of us with a sprit. Is this assym drawing properly? It has pretty decent shoulders and the max we can go is 155-160 AWA in decent wind.
(no, we did not race with a dinghy on the deck, but I thought about it a couple times.)
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Cbuydos

Member I
Chris, my intention was not to pick a fight over the topic. Maybe I was not as clear as I should have been. Yes, you can hook up an asym. to your bow roller as you have shown above. Unfortunately you are not receiving the full benefit of the sail. A bowsprit will significantly enhance the performance of the sail by reducing the blanket effect of the main. The longer the sprit, the less of an effect your main will have on your chute's performance. More speed brings the apparent wind forward allowing you to sail a bit deeper (better VMG). By the way I like the graphic on the sail.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Several years ago there were aftermarket vendors with extendable sprits that could be 'jibed' across an angle of 30 degrees or so. I wonder if anyone here has tried one?
 

gadangit

Member III
Chris, my intention was not to pick a fight over the topic. Maybe I was not as clear as I should have been. Yes, you can hook up an asym. to your bow roller as you have shown above. Unfortunately you are not receiving the full benefit of the sail. A bowsprit will significantly enhance the performance of the sail by reducing the blanket effect of the main. The longer the sprit, the less of an effect your main will have on your chute's performance. More speed brings the apparent wind forward allowing you to sail a bit deeper (better VMG). By the way I like the graphic on the sail.
Oh man no fight here. It was an interesting comment that seemed like it needed a bit more explanation. I thought the current prevailing wisdom was not much performance gain, but you do have easier sail handling (gybing) and can build a bigger spinnaker with longer luff. The OP has his sail, so nothing to change there.

I think the top down furler might be easier to manage with some distance in front of the forestay. I know our code 0 would be easier to furl if it wasn't right against the rolled up genoa.

All the credit for the logo goes to Lisa. She has done a great job as the aesthetic director. We call this sail Ra.

Chris
 

Keith Parcells

Sustaining Member
Here is an article for a diy bowsprit. ⛵️

 

p.gazibara

Member III
Well I have been tinkering around and got some parts together to have a go at a bowsprit. C3C64405-F9AB-4929-99D5-31B93073CC07.jpeg
A friend had an old collapsible spinnaker pole that I cust a section out of. This will be essentially the sleeve that the retractable pole will slide through. The local rigging shop welded me a plate for clutch and a tube for the anchor roller pin.

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I’m using the old fittings from a reaching strut to serve as a means to tighten the bobstay and clip onto the deck to distribute the compression.

The tube itself is thick wall aluminum pipe. Again a friend had it laying around and I just cut a 1.2m section of it.

Maybe tomorrow I’ll be able to do a test fit.
 

Kenneth K

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Here's a photo I stole from somewhere online a while back. I thought it was kind of creative:

asym bowprit.png
 
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p.gazibara

Member III
Slow progress on the sprit. The next step is to glass in a pad for the aft end of the bowsprit. I also need to install the babystay.

If all goes well I’ll take it all apart and paint it.

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