Catastrophic Oil Loss

[Prairie Schooner]

The Wound Was Self-Inflicted

I feel like such a moron. I tightened the alternator arm too much and it was rubbing against the filter. The breach was only a matter of time. Much like Deborah just described. The new filter is installed. The engine started. There doesn't seem to be any more leaking. I'd kept the belt that was one size larger on board and installed that so there is no contact now. If I'd just started the engine again with some oil, I would have found out right away. But without knowing the cause, I took a more methodical approach. At least I know the engine better now. A nice warm shower, some dinner, and enjoying a cigar and bourbon as I report back to you.

We did get a couple trips onto land, yesterday for a shower and today for parts. For the record, Vineyard Scoops ice cream is much better than Mad Martha's. Thanks everyone for your concern and advice.

 

[Alan Gomes]

I figured you'd find the leak easily enough, but I was worried that there might have been some damage to the engine. But based on your video, she purrs like a kitten!

So glad this worked out well. Wish I were there to celebrate with you, but I guess I'll have to partake of a celebratory cigar from 3000 miles away!

Big relief!!

 

[gabriel]

The Wound Was Self-Inflicted

I feel like such a moron. I tightened the alternator arm too much and it was rubbing against the filter. The breach was only a matter of time. Much like Deborah just described. The new filter is installed. The engine started. There doesn't seem to be any more leaking. I'd kept the belt that was one size larger on board and installed that so there is no contact now. If I'd just started the engine again with some oil, I would have found out right away. But without knowing the cause, I took a more methodical approach. At least I know the engine better now. A nice warm shower, some dinner, and enjoying a cigar and bourbon as I report back to you.

We did get a couple trips onto land, yesterday for a shower and today for parts. For the record, Vineyard Scoops ice cream is much better than Mad Martha's. Thanks everyone for your concern and advice.

Were you trying to get all the slack out of the belt? Seems like it’s a little loose.

i’m glad it was simple and you caught it before it turned catastrophic! You’ll never forget this vacation!

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Were you trying to get all the slack out of the belt? Seems like it’s a little loose.

i’m glad it was simple and you caught it before it turned catastrophic! You’ll never forget this vacation!

Gabriel,
This is discussed at greater length starting at post #25

V-belt Tension

There are details on the following method elsewhere on this forum if you search belt tension; maybe 9 months ago or so. Its a very easy and very accurate way using only your thumb and first finger. Grab the center at the longest distance between pulleys and twist either direction...should never...

ericsonyachts.org

Yes, it is too loose for my liking. But there is a very narrow sweet spot between belt length, arm range of adjustment, coolant hose and filter placement, and other factors. If memory serves, there's only a half inch difference between the 7390 and 7395 belts. My attempt with a shorter belt turned out bad. I think I've got the least of the evils now until I modify or replace the alternator arm.
J

 

[bsangs]

While I'm certainly glad you figured out the source of the oil leak, of more importance is your PSA ice cream review. You sure know how to captivate an audience, Jeff.

The Wound Was Self-Inflicted

I feel like such a moron. I tightened the alternator arm too much and it was rubbing against the filter. The breach was only a matter of time. Much like Deborah just described. The new filter is installed. The engine started. There doesn't seem to be any more leaking. I'd kept the belt that was one size larger on board and installed that so there is no contact now. If I'd just started the engine again with some oil, I would have found out right away. But without knowing the cause, I took a more methodical approach. At least I know the engine better now. A nice warm shower, some dinner, and enjoying a cigar and bourbon as I report back to you.

We did get a couple trips onto land, yesterday for a shower and today for parts. For the record, Vineyard Scoops ice cream is much better than Mad Martha's. Thanks everyone for your concern and advice.

 

[Bolo]

The Wound Was Self-Inflicted

I feel like such a moron. I tightened the alternator arm too much and it was rubbing against the filter. The breach was only a matter of time. Much like Deborah just described. The new filter is installed. The engine started. There doesn't seem to be any more leaking. I'd kept the belt that was one size larger on board and installed that so there is no contact now. If I'd just started the engine again with some oil, I would have found out right away. But without knowing the cause, I took a more methodical approach. At least I know the engine better now. A nice warm shower, some dinner, and enjoying a cigar and bourbon as I report back to you.

We did get a couple trips onto land, yesterday for a shower and today for parts. For the record, Vineyard Scoops ice cream is much better than Mad Martha's. Thanks everyone for your concern and advice.

So glad you found the source of the leak and that it wasn’t anything more significant than a punctured oil filter. I carry one or two filters with oil on board always because as you found out…you never know. While this was all going on I looked at some photos of my own M25XP and noticed that I have a large section of hose “guarding” the oil filter from the bracket. A previous owner put it there and possibly after experiencing the same problem you just discovered. You can see the hose in the photo below between the filter and bracket.

 

[Angel D.]

Hello Jeff , Im verry sorry that you are having trouble , im glad that everyone is helping with exelent sugetions. I agree with the crew on this one and wish you the best of lucks with the new filter and pray that is the end of it.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

So glad you found the source of the leak and that it wasn’t anything more significant than a punctured oil filter. I carry one or two filters with oil on board always because as you found out…you never know. While this was all going on I looked at some photos of my own M25XP and noticed that I have a large section of hose “guarding” the oil filter from the bracket. A previous owner put it there and possibly after experiencing the same problem you just discovered. You can see the hose in the photo below between the filter and bracket.
View attachment 53267

Yeah Bob, if I were installing the coolant hoses again I probably would have used a metal elbow instead of the silicone one. As is, I don't think there's any room for a chafing guard in our geometry. There's more discussion on the subject, with good input from others, in that V-belt tension thread. I suspect there's a modified or new arm in our future.
I wonder if your filter is shorter than ours. You seem to have more clearance than we've got.

 

[peaman]

At my last oil and filter change the new filter was same cross-reference, but different brand from the one it was replacing. I always assumed different cross-references for filters would pretty much match, but that isn't necessarily the case. The new filter I intended to install had a slightly bigger jacket diameter. So a simple filter change could result in the problem Jeff had, without the installer's knowledge.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

While I'm certainly glad you figured out the source of the oil leak, of more importance is your PSA ice cream review. You sure know how to captivate an audience, Jeff.

The Recipe for a Captivating Yarn:
Make a stupid mistake. Blame it on the Cruel Fates. Then cast the fumbling response as an Epic struggle of the Hero for justice and victory.

 

[Loren Beach]

Thanks for the update! On our prior (OEM) Universal M25XP, I never liked the way the copper 90 degree elbow was so darned close to the alternator tension arm. I put a little length of split hose around it and added some duct tape. No real chafe ever happened, but the design by Universal/Westerbeke seemed pretty sketchy to me.
Hang in there....

Also: I went thru a multi-year progression of finding the best belt, including one odd looking "top cog" design, and ended up with a more conventional Gates "Heavy duty" belt. Those Belt adventures are somewhere in an older thread here.......

Edit: we always used the stock Moto 50 (55?) amp alternator.

 

[Bolo]

Just for fun, I took the photo of the Kismet engine (Prairie Schooner) and my engine on Vesper (Both the same) cropped, scaled and placed them side by side where I came to one conclusion. We both not using the same belt. Not being on board I can't tell you which belt I have on my M25XP but it seems to be longer because there is more room between the oil filter and the alternator. I won't be on board for a few days so I can't tell you what brand or model number the belt is but I'm sure this is not a result of stretching. You can see, by way of the slotted hole at the top of the bracket and the space between the alternator, that Vesper's alternator is swung out farther. Interesting. It also seems like the drive pulley on Vesper is larger than the one on Kismet or at least different. "Very interesting!", as Arte Johnson use to say on that old TV show Laugh In.

 

[bigd14]

Glad it was a simple solution, even if a self-imposed problem. I have had many of those (problems that is)!

 

[Kenneth K]

We're not using the same belt.

True, but the longer belt is not without problems either. Someone did a lot of grinding on the lower curve of that alternator arm to keep it from hitting the fan. Even with the grinding, there's very little clearance between the fan and the arm.

 

[bsangs]

I realize it's of zero help to this issue, but for a Yanmar guy, the Universal engine arrangement is quite fascinating to look at. You can't even see the alternator on my 3GM30F without peaking behind the engine front. And the adjustment arm is well in front of the oil filter, even if the photo doesn't make that abundantly clear.

 

[Bolo]

True, but the longer belt is not without problems either. Someone did a lot of grinding on the lower curve of that alternator arm to keep it from hitting the fan. Even with the grinding, there's very little clearance between the fan and the arm.
View attachment 53272

Hmmm….never noticed that before. Wasn’t me.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Just for fun, I took the photo of the Kismet engine (Prairie Schooner) and my engine on Vesper (Both the same) cropped, scaled and placed them side by side where I came to one conclusion. We both not using the same belt. Not being on board I can't tell you which belt I have on my M25XP but it seems to be longer because there is more room between the oil filter and the alternator. I won't be on board for a few days so I can't tell you what brand or model number the belt is but I'm sure this is not a result of stretching. You can see, by way of the slotted hole at the top of the bracket and the space between the alternator, that Vesper's alternator is swung out farther. Interesting. It also seems like the drive pulley on Vesper is larger than the one on Kismet or at least different. "Very interesting!", as Arte Johnson use to say on that old TV show Laugh In.

View attachment 53271

Bob, that's a really interesting comparison. It's instructive how the 'same' thing can be different. When we got the boat there were two spare belts in the locker, 7405 & 7400. The engine had a 7395 installed. The picture you reproduced is with the 7390 I shoehorned on. So it seems to me the PO experimented with this too. The engine bay wall has a divot carved into it, kinda visible in this photo. I've assumed that was an attempt to accommodate the larger(?) Balmar alternator and perhaps a longer belt. With the 7395 back on, the slot in the adjuster arm is maxed out like yours, though there still isn't as much clearance with the filter as you have. It seems the geometry of all this offers a very small window to adjust within. . . . Because . . . Boats.

 

[phil bennett]

. . or How I Spent My Summer Vacation

Advice Please!

View attachment 53253
We arrived on Martha's Vineyard this afternoon to go below and find this. (Adding an oil pressure alarm has been on my list. Sigh.) I was watching engine temp and it didn't overheat. I've got the bilge mopped up. I know next to nothing about the oil system. The two diesel mechanics I could reach are booked at least a week out. We're about 35-40 miles from our home port. It's about 20 tricky miles to a good diesel tech on the mainland. It looks like wherever the oil came from was on the forward part of the engine. At one point I noticed the tach was reading low tho the engine hadn't changed sound. I looked later and it was reading correctly. I assume oil spray was making the belt slip. ?

View attachment 53254

There are 15-25 trouble free hours on the engine since I rebuilt the cooling/exhaust system.

We're exhausted so I'm tackling this in the morning. I didn't wipe down the engine because I wanted evidence to trace.

I'm thinking about putting oil in and trying to start it to see where the oil exits. (If it will even start.) Any input on how to diagnose is most welcome.

Thanks,
Jeff

I had an experience somewhat similar back about 20 years ago on my E-34. Replaced 2 oil filters trying to get to Astoria. Leak turned out to be from a hose-clamp tail that was just touching the filter enough to wear a pin-hole leak in the filter, too small to see and under the filter where it wasn't readily visible. Good luck.

 

[Kenneth K]

When we got the boat there were two spare belts in the locker, 7405 & 7400. The engine had a 7395 installed.

The alternator bracket kit that Catalina direct sold came with two belts, apparently one for the M25 and one for the M25XP.

See: Universal Diesel Alternator Bracket Retrofit https://share.google/4xXPcQfxFWvrfQ6FY

Catalina's site also displays this warning regarding oil filters.

 

[Bolo]

View attachment 53274
Bob, that's a really interesting comparison. It's instructive how the 'same' thing can be different. When we got the boat there were two spare belts in the locker, 7405 & 7400. The engine had a 7395 installed. The picture you reproduced is with the 7390 I shoehorned on. So it seems to me the PO experimented with this too. The engine bay wall has a divot carved into it, kinda visible in this photo. I've assumed that was an attempt to accommodate the larger(?) Balmar alternator and perhaps a longer belt. With the 7395 back on, the slot in the adjuster arm is maxed out like yours, though there still isn't as much clearance with the filter as you have. It seems the geometry of all this offers a very small window to adjust within. . . . Because . . . Boats.

On the E32-3 the entire "engine bay" cover comes off (which allows excellent access, BTW) but it appears that your E35 engine bay walls are not removable. I think that perhaps my engine bay is a little bit wider allowing for the alternator to swing out a bit farther and in this case a bit farther makes all the difference. I did sound add sound proofing to the inside of my engine bay cover which was about 1/12" thick and when I did the alternator did cave out the insulation a bit similar to what you show in your photo.