Cockpit drains to bottom ?

K2MSmith

Member III
I was crawling around in "the hole" yesterday to re-route some bilge hose and also check the job the diesel repair did on tightening/repacking my stuffing box. Since I am hearing a lot of sinking boats lately, I thought I would inspect all the thru-hulls in the stern area. I didn't get a picture but I am wondering why two of the cockpit drain hosts go to a big seacock on the bottom center of the boat (under the cockpit) ? Is that a normal setup ? The boat was setup for racing and I know there are offshore regulations regarding how fast the cockpit drains, so I am wondering if these were added or do all boats have 4 drain hoses ?
 

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Mine only has two drain scuppers, but I think you are right about the design being required for racing.
Better to have more drain volume than you need, I would imagine.

This issue is I think why most modern race-ish boats have open transoms.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
The E32-3 (below) and the 381 have four drains. The outers have hoses that join before draining to a seacock under the galley sink. The inners, which, being outsmarted by the outers, don't come into play unless the cockpit is awash, cross to drain to seacocks under the counter.

32-3 IMG_0078.JPG
 
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Kenneth K

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Like Christain said, however, in some boats, the outers drain at the stern (with or without crossing from port to starboard--another variation) and the inners combine to drain under the galley.
 

steven

Sustaining Member
The E35-2 is set up with 4 but a different drainage pattern. The two on the right tie into the galley sink drain and all go to a bronze seacock below the sink. The two on the left tie together and go through a seacock located to port symtrically to the one to stbd. This year I am putting in another drain that will drain above the waterline to be used primarily for winter draining (so the others can be winterized and closed).
 

driftless

Member II
The 38-200 only has 2 drains - the "outers" as described by Christian. These drain straight (not crossed) to above-waterline through hulls under the stern counter.

We had the unpleasant experience of finding these to be inadequate during a 4"+ rain event last spring with the boat on the hard. One hose was restricted by debris and the other drain became clogged by pine needles from nearby trees blown in by the high winds that accompanied the storm.

We went that weekend to check on the boat and found her full of water a few inches over the floorboards. It was devastating, although nothing was permanently damaged. Best I could tell is that it all flooded down through the speakers at the back of the cockpit.

So I added two additional drains patterned after Ryan L's, draining to their own new through hulls. And I used clear hose for all 4 so I can see if they get clogged.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
On an earlier boat I didn't even need clogs--the standing water in the low point of the hoses froze. Wound up with a foot of ice over the cabin sole till spring.
 

mordust

Member II
So. This is timely.
I was planning to replace most thru-hulls/seacocks below the sink in my E32-3 this spring. They are: the engine raw water inlet, sink drain, sea water sink intake ( I think), and this scupper drain being discussed here in this thread. It is sort of a rat's nest of ball handles under there, none of which are all that easy to reach when you are bending down and reaching through the little door.
If indeed the reason for the 2 inner scupper drains ( the two that tee into the single hose and exit via the one thru hull under the sink), are placed there because of racing rules, does any body see a reason not to move where their exit thru-hull is to somewhere near the other thru hulls
below the stern and above the water line? I'm thinking one less under water thru hull, and less of a rat's nest under the sink.
Am I missing something, any thoughts?

Bob
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
The 2019 Transpac rules say:

Deck and Cockpit _____Cockpit volume not to exceed 0.08 x LOA x Max. Beam x Freeboard aft. Cockpit sole at least 0.02 x LOA above LWL. (Transpac NOR allows "coastal" rather than "offshore" cockpit volume limit.)

Cockpit drains _____One square inch of drain per eight square feet of cockpit sole area (or drain 6" water in 5 minutes). Cockpit drain diameter _____ Number of drains _____ Cockpit area _____*


Personally I don't see an advantage to moving the Ericson seacocks. But then, I don't close the cockpit seacocks when I leave the boat.

*https://transpacyc.com/assets/documents/2019/TP50-Inspection-Checklist-2019.pdf
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
So. This is timely.
I was planning to replace most thru-hulls/seacocks below the sink in my E32-3 this spring. They are: the engine raw water inlet, sink drain, sea water sink intake ( I think), and this scupper drain being discussed here in this thread. It is sort of a rat's nest of ball handles under there, none of which are all that easy to reach when you are bending down and reaching through the little door.
If indeed the reason for the 2 inner scupper drains ( the two that tee into the single hose and exit via the one thru hull under the sink), are placed there because of racing rules, does any body see a reason not to move where their exit thru-hull is to somewhere near the other thru hulls
below the stern and above the water line? I'm thinking one less under water thru hull, and less of a rat's nest under the sink.
Am I missing something, any thoughts?

Bob
I planned to replace all of those seacocks when I hauled out for painting last September: two of them were stuck in the open position - mainly due to the present owner's ignorance about keeping them exercised (the sink drain one and the cockpit drain one, which I leave open all the time). But, I soon realized it was a bigger job than I had time for: instead of replacing all through-hulls and all seacocks, I only replaced the two stuck seacocks (I now have a nice collection of new through-hulls and seacocks for my next haulout ... ??).
You're right about the nest of seacocks, handles and hoses in there - it's a bit awkward working in there.
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
So. This is timely.
I was planning to replace most thru-hulls/seacocks below the sink in my E32-3 this spring. They are: the engine raw water inlet, sink drain, sea water sink intake ( I think), and this scupper drain being discussed here in this thread. It is sort of a rat's nest of ball handles under there, none of which are all that easy to reach when you are bending down and reaching through the little door.
If indeed the reason for the 2 inner scupper drains ( the two that tee into the single hose and exit via the one thru hull under the sink), are placed there because of racing rules, does any body see a reason not to move where their exit thru-hull is to somewhere near the other thru hulls
below the stern and above the water line? I'm thinking one less under water thru hull, and less of a rat's nest under the sink.
Am I missing something, any thoughts?

Bob
The cockpit drain under the sink, and therefore below the water line, will not plug from freezing temperatures, at least in the lower 48 states' salt water moorages. That is the main reason I can think of to keep it there. Even if your cockpit fills with snow or is overrun with rainwater, that drain can be left open (maintain your hoses and clamps properly) and the water will eventually exit.

We have an easily removable battery operated LED light under the sink that is very helpful, all night and all day, too.
 

steven

Sustaining Member
Cockpit drains _____One square inch of drain per eight square feet of cockpit sole area (or drain 6" water in 5 minutes). Cockpit drain diameter _____ Number of drains _____ Cockpit area _____*

Is that a min, a max, or exactly ?
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I believe that the offshore regs are a minimum. In addition I know of several cruisers that had additional drain tubes glassed into the footwell sides low down, leading directly OB.
I have only been on delivery where we had a wave fill the whole cockpit, but I am a believer that you do want provision for it to exit promptly. :eek:
 

Fenek8

New Member
I believe that the offshore regs are a minimum. In addition I know of several cruisers that had additional drain tubes glassed into the footwell sides low down, leading directly OB.
I have only been on delivery where we had a wave fill the whole cockpit, but I am a believer that you do want provision for it to exit promptly. :eek:
Loren... I am a newbie owner of a 23-2 i acquired cheap. Have it in a DIY boatyard now. Love the boat, but it has only one pathetic scupper near the transom. With open transoms so common now, was considering just drilling a couple of 3 inch holes low in the transom about level with the cockpit sole, sealing the raw edges with epoxy and light glass if necessary. That should get any water ot quickly, i would think. Wonder if you see any potential drawbacks? thanks for any help... Fenek8
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hi Fenek8,
It might be good to have some input from owners of other E-23 (Mk 1 or 2) to see if their experiences would seem to require added drainage.
 

gabriel

Member III
Loren... I am a newbie owner of a 23-2 i acquired cheap. Have it in a DIY boatyard now. Love the boat, but it has only one pathetic scupper near the transom. With open transoms so common now, was considering just drilling a couple of 3 inch holes low in the transom about level with the cockpit sole, sealing the raw edges with epoxy and light glass if necessary. That should get any water ot quickly, i would think. Wonder if you see any potential drawbacks? thanks for any help... Fenek8
What size is current scupper and do you have an outboard cutout in the transom?

i find the existing vertical 1-1/8” scupper on my e25 more than adequate for what the boat was intended for, especially since it drains straight-out the back through the transom and can easily be unplugged with a finger. And if the scupper ever did plug, water would flow out the outboard notch before entering cabin.

If anything I would enlarge the existing scupper, taking care not to enlarge below the level of the cockpit sole.
 
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