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Coming to a Head: Holding Tank or Portable?

Milagros

Member II
Hi All,
My '76 E27 is still equipped with what I assume in the original Raritan marine head which discharges directly overboard. Since we sail in SF bay this puts us in the quite literally uncomfortable position of having to "hold it" or run afoul of environmental regulations. My inclination is to rip the whole thing out and replace it with a portable cassette-type head, but before I do that I wanted to hear if anyone thinks I might be better served installing a holding tank and pump out port, and how much of a pain it is to do.

My marina has a free and conveniently located pump out, as well as facilities where I can easily dump a portable toilet tank. We use the boat mostly for day sailing but enjoy the occasional overnight to several day excursion.

We got the boat last fall, so we've had a very limited number of guests aboard, making this an easy problem to ignore. Now we're hoping to have more friends out and I can only imagine the righteous scolding my father (a serious sailor and a leader in the Coast Guard Auxiliary) will give me if I don't have this sorted by the time he visits in July...

Thanks!
Ian
 

1911tex

Sustaining Member
I'll give you my thoughts. I have a new model Raritan with a holding tank...only for use with #1 only "sitting" for everyone.
I have a separate Dometic 976 (5 gallon) Sanipottie positioned in the shower area for #2 only. Had this setup for a couple of years...no odors, no smell.

Pumping #1 only overboard with your Raritan marine head should not a problem. The Dometic is very easily dumped in a marina pump out.

Until you decide what to do, make your current Raritan for #1 use only and get a Dometic 976 for #2.
 

gadangit

Member III
In the early days of our boat we used a portable toilet. It was surprisingly easy and "clean" to pull out the tank, or what ever the process was, and take it to be dumped out. So if you want to defer the final solution a bit further out, I can concur with Tex above.
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
In my E27. I went with the porta-pottie. One of the best decisions I made.
Now I have a full marine head with all the hoses, valves, through hulls, capacity sensors and such and find myself at the pump out way to often. We try to use the facilities on shore as much as possible too. One of my rules with either head is #1 ok. #2 only in an emergencies.
 

jtsai

Member III
My two daughters went on numerous sailing trips with me on trailerable boats with 2.5 gallon portable toilet. With 1 grown man and 2 little girls, it has to be emptied every night. I got lazy one evening and did not empty it before bed time, VERY bad decision. Hauling to facility to empty the waste tank is not pleasant but doable. The 5 gallon unit will last longer, carrying the full waste tank to facility will be a work out. Some potty comes with pump outlet which is nice. Is compost head an option?
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
I have an MSD porta potty. The MSD has plumbing so I can dump the built-in 5 gallon tank overboard with a macerator pump when I'm outside the 3-mile limit. I could also use it as a traditional porta potty and remove it if I wanted to, but I never need to.

I've seen no downside whatsoever and a number of advantages to it. For one, its effective capacity is significantly more than even the 15 gallon conventional tank I had on my previous 30 footer. This is because the porta potty uses almost no flush water. Second, it requires no maintenance whatever: no joker valves, no pump rebuilds, no nuthin'. Utterly reliable. It also frees up the space where you would have put a conventional holding tank; you can now use that to store other things.

One caveat: With my Thetford 550p, at least, the plastic hold-down brackets were totally inadequate. I replaced them with metal brackets that hold it securely in place. You don't want a tank full of 5 gallons of "stuff" flying around when sailing in brisk conditions!
 

Milagros

Member II
Thanks all. Seems like the porta-potty route is the clear winner here. Looking forward to a fun weekend project. :)
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
I had this one. Worked great but you really want to wax the slider that you pull to flush. I usually did this when cleaning it. A little carnuba cleaning wax on the slider and on the pull rod will keep it working great for years. If you don’t, it gets harder to pull and eventually the handle pulls off. That’s the only trick I had. Nice product, good mounting system.

 

Milagros

Member II
I had this one. Worked great but you really want to wax the slider that you pull to flush. I usually did this when cleaning it. A little carnuba cleaning wax on the slider and on the pull rod will keep it working great for years. If you don’t, it gets harder to pull and eventually the handle pulls off. That’s the only trick I had. Nice product, good mounting system.

That seems like the ticket. Am I right in understanding that I will be able to use a pump out to empty it? That would really be ideal for me because the pump out in my marina is just across from my slip.
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
I never used a pump out on the portable? I suppose it would work if you have it connected to a deck fittings but it would be overkill. The pump outs I have used are pretty high suction and empty my 12 gallon tank faster than I could ever fill with a hose. The Dometic unit has a good built in handle and a closing vent to makes carrying almost uneventful. Don't forget to close it!
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
That seems like the ticket. Am I right in understanding that I will be able to use a pump out to empty it? That would really be ideal for me because the pump out in my marina is just across from my slip.
You would plumb an MSD porta potti exactly as you would a conventional head. It has a connection for the output hose and a vent line, just as a holding tank would. The sole difference is that in this case the holding tank is integrated into the toilet itself. Otherwise, it all works the same and has no effect on the hoses involved.

On my own installation, I did not bother hooking it up to my deck pumpout fitting because I never use dock pumpouts. I do frequent trips to Catalina Island and always dump three miles offshore on the way home from my trips. I do have the deck fitting for it and could hook it up, but the hose run is very tight behind the cabinetry and saw no need to install it granting that I'd never use it anyway. But that has nothing at all to do with the fact that it's a porta potti vs. a conventional tank.
 

gabriel

Live free or die hard
Check mounting area if going with portable head.

I replaced my clogged up marine head with a portable head but it is longer than a standard head and doesnt fit right due to the flare of the hull. using it while sitting down is literally “edge of your seat”.

the space was really designed around a standard raritan ph head, at least on my boat e25cb.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Check mounting area if going with portable head.

I replaced my clogged up marine head with a portable head but it is longer than a standard head and doesnt fit right due to the flare of the hull. using it while sitting down is literally “edge of your seat”.

the space was really designed around a standard raritan ph head, at least on my boat e25cb.
Certainly this is good advice and applies to most things you are installing on a boat--whether it's a head, sails, stuffing box packing, or what have you. Always measure it first and assume nothing.

On my E26-2, my Thetford 550p MSD porta potti is slightly deeper than a conventional head, but it still fit just fine on the platform.
 

Milagros

Member II
Easy install for the Dometic 975. Seems solid but I have yet to take it for a "test drive". Perfectly sized. Another drawback of the old raritan was that the bowl was so close to the door that it was hard to sit down and close the door. Without all the pumping apparatus I was able to move the whole thing outboard and get some more room!

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KS Dave

Dastardly Villain
Blogs Author
On my E26-2, my Thetford 550p MSD porta potti is slightly deeper than a conventional head, but it still fit just fine on the platform.

I'm thinking about doing the same on my E26 - do you have some pictures you could share of your install?
 

Jenkins

Member II
You would plumb an MSD porta potti exactly as you would a conventional head. It has a connection for the output hose and a vent line, just as a holding tank would. The sole difference is that in this case the holding tank is integrated into the toilet itself. Otherwise, it all works the same and has no effect on the hoses involved.

On my own installation, I did not bother hooking it up to my deck pumpout fitting because I never use dock pumpouts. I do frequent trips to Catalina Island and always dump three miles offshore on the way home from my trips. I do have the deck fitting for it and could hook it up, but the hose run is very tight behind the cabinetry and saw no need to install it granting that I'd never use it anyway. But that has nothing at all to do with the fact that it's a porta potti vs. a conventional tank.
Alan is perfectly correct. However you will please note he used MSD porta potti - these are equipped with all the ports required for deck pump out etc. MSD - marine sanitation device. Not all porta potties have the requisite fittings.

the happiest maintenance day on my boat was the one I removed the stinking tank and hoses for my old system. Pretty horrible job but to be rid of that smell!!!!!!! Heavenly.
peter
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
I'm thinking about doing the same on my E26 - do you have some pictures you could share of your install?
Hi, Dave. I've attached some pictures of the installation on my E26-2. Note that the Thetford 550p MSD is technically a discontinued model, though I do see it still for sale. Old stock perhaps?

Some observations about my installation:

1. I find that it fits just fine on the platform and I am able to use it without issue. I'm only about 5'7", though. However, my wife, who is taller, reports that it's actually more comfortable than the Groco head on our previous 30 footer, because it is a bit taller and she likes that. So it seems to work well for both of us. The head compartment on the E26 isn't very large, as you know, but I can use it just fine with the door closed.

2. You'll note the custom stainless bracket I had made that secures the front of the head. Behind the head (not shown in the pictures) is a wooden cleat that holds the rear of the toilet base in place. This stainless bracket I had fabricated is pretty fancy, but you could get by with something simpler. The point, though, is that the flimsy plastic brackets that ship with the unit are totally inadequate. You definitely don't want the thing coming up and out of the brackets in a seaway. I've had this installed for around 8 years and it is utterly solid.

3. Yes, the 90-degree bend for the discharge is certainly not ideal. However, I could see no way around it. I can say that I've had no issue with clogs in that elbow in the past 8+ years, so it hasn't proven to be a problem in practical life. Note the elongated hole we cut in the liner to accommodate the hose.

4. You'll see a switch with a red switch guard. That is the cockpit eject switch for catapulting the user through the cabin ceiling. Ok, maybe not. This is for the macerator that is located in the comparment on the starboard side, forward of the bulkhead that separates the head from the vee-berth. Where I sail, I always discharge the tank contents when 3 miles offshore using the macerator pump.

5. The vent on this unit is fairly marginal. I just hooked it to the same vent fitting to which the previous bladder holding tank (ugh!) was attached, i.e., when I first bought the boat. For odor control I use Odorlos, which marine sanitation guru Peggy Hall recommends especially for installations with marginal venting. I do not have an odor problem with this head.

6. One nice thing about this portable MSD unit is that it can be removed from the boat without too much hoopla. I've had it out maybe once or twice, I guess, to take home for a deep cleaning. But really, I just try to keep up with maintaining it by flushing through a bucket of fresh water after a long trip. (I fill the head with fresh water, go sail out 3 miles, and them dump it.) But the point is, I can pretty easily remove it should I want to do a more thorough cleaning off the boat.

I've been very happy with this installation. As I've said elsewhere, the practical capacity of this exceeds the 15 or so gallon tank I had on my 30 footer, due to how little flush water it requires. (It is, after all, essentially a glorified bucket in a lot of ways.) The toilet requires no real maintainence, such as lubing the pump or replacing joker valves. It just keeps on working.




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