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Coolant overflow tank
- Thread starter Aqua V
- Start date
Prairie Schooner
Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
In post 139 I discuss what I chose.
ericsonyachts.org
Coolant Conundrum/Exhaust Riser Replacement [Master Thread]
Yeah, your riser setup is interesting. Compare that to what I originally had on my M25. The one-piece Universal riser/elbow unit (circled in yellow) was considered enough "rise" for the raw water injection point. For some reason on yours, they added a riser pipe below the riser/elbow unit...
peaman
Contributing Partner
The overflow setup is same function as cars: fluid from the "accumulator" tank is driven from the coolant system by pressure, and then returned to the system as it cools, getting sucked back into the accumulator. I have a Westerbeke tank, but any other suitable tank can be used. A see-through tank is convenient, but not required.
If you study this blog entry photo, and the other entry next to it, note that we used a new tank from an auto-supply store. Key thing was to mount it so that it was just above the plane of the hose exit from from the pressure cap. This has been operating OK since 2018.
ericsonyachts.org
O34 - Wiring & Engine Detail, part 2
These photos show the Halon bottle in place, and also a much better look at the inside of the compartment where the meter and terminal strip are mounted. As an "extra" there is a shot of the new coolant overflow tank showing how the level in it...
Aqua V
Member I
Nice power plant and configuration! ... appreciate the pics! I've a bit more room for a mtg.s spot.If you study this blog entry photo, and the other entry next to it, note that we used a new tank from an auto-supply store. Key thing was to mount it so that it was just above the plane of the hose exit from from the pressure cap. This has been operating OK since 2018.
O34 - Wiring & Engine Detail, part 2
These photos show the Halon bottle in place, and also a much better look at the inside of the compartment where the meter and terminal strip are mounted. As an "extra" there is a shot of the new coolant overflow tank showing how the level in it...
If I could squeeze out a bit more help...I've seen an "external electric fuel pump" depicted in the universal fuel diagrams, is this supplemental to wants part of the motors fuel system, bit confused. Trying to splash the boat for the maiden engine run-up soon.
Thanks all!
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engine sp 2.jpg
Getting into "what I think that I know, but sometimes is not so..." 
diesels need a way to pre-pressurize the fuel before it reaches the engine's high pressure pump that provides the very-high-pressure to each cylinder injector. Many have a small pump mounted on the engine that takes pulses off of a lever from the crank, internally. Some engines have always opted for an external electric fuel pump to provide several PSI of pressure. I do not know whether one design is superior.
The 80's Universal's used a Facet brand external 12 volt pump for this, like the stock Universal M25XP that was installed in our '88 boat. The new Betamarine25 (also based on a Kubota block) that I replaced it with in 2018, uses an engine-driven pump, not electric. I actually left our Facet 12 volt pump in the fuel system to make bleeding the system easier.
Looks like you have some work ahead, but do have a clean engine compartment in which to do the work! That's a newer Universal than what likely came with that boat when new, IMHO.
diesels need a way to pre-pressurize the fuel before it reaches the engine's high pressure pump that provides the very-high-pressure to each cylinder injector. Many have a small pump mounted on the engine that takes pulses off of a lever from the crank, internally. Some engines have always opted for an external electric fuel pump to provide several PSI of pressure. I do not know whether one design is superior.
The 80's Universal's used a Facet brand external 12 volt pump for this, like the stock Universal M25XP that was installed in our '88 boat. The new Betamarine25 (also based on a Kubota block) that I replaced it with in 2018, uses an engine-driven pump, not electric. I actually left our Facet 12 volt pump in the fuel system to make bleeding the system easier.
Looks like you have some work ahead, but do have a clean engine compartment in which to do the work! That's a newer Universal than what likely came with that boat when new, IMHO.
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peaman
Contributing Partner
I have a 12V Facet "Cube" on my M25. Not long ago, as I was heading out for a sail, I discovered that increasing the throttle would only get the engine speed up to 1800 rpm and not more. It turns out that my electric fuel pump had failed. Now, whenever I go to start the engine, I listen for the distinct rapid clicking sound of that pump before energizing the starter motor. And I will start the Spring season with a spare pump.
peaman
Contributing Partner
If the radiator cap is where you have been checking and adding coolant, then yes. With a working recovery tank installation, coolant will be added in the recovery tank instead of the radiator cap. In fact removal of the radiator cap will commonly result in spilled fluid. Level of tank is not real critical: it can be a few inches higher or lower.
Another important point is the type of radiator cap. To benefit from a recovery tank, you need to have a "recovery" type of cap, also called "vented", or "double seal". That allows the system to build pressure while releasing air, and then, to prevent excess pressure build-up, to push fluid into the recovery tank. Upon cooling, the cap will allow fluid to be drawn from the recovery tank back into the system. That is different from what used to be common on cars 40 years ago, which is a "non-vented", or "single seal" cap which will not recover fluid nor relieve a vacuum. This link might be helpful in understanding the differences.
In the link cited in @Prairie Schooner's post above, page 8 of that master thread goes into greater detail of the overall system.
ky ed
Extreme Adventurer. E27 trailer sailor from Iowa
Yeah your gonna want a cap that has check valve built into so it can draw from recovery tank. You will find that you very seldom will have to remove radiator cap. I had best luck with recover tank full line at same heighth as radiator cap. Put the tank in handy spot for refill and checking if its full.
Second Star
Member III
Shortly after we bought Second Star the auto type tank fell apart. As a quick fix, I used a boat show "give away" translucent water bottle to replace it because the lid had a hole for a straw that was just right for the drain hose. It is mounted about 6 inches below the cap and has been going strong for 10 years!
Aqua V
Member I
Having a hard time identifying the correct fuel fittings for this pump, "476459 E" literature says 5/16" in one place, 1/8 inch in others. I've measured ID on pump fittings, 3/8"... ???
Thanks on space call out... - behind fuel/water SEP, approx. 2 feet forward and below fuel tank (Aft of Engine). TY!
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pump b.jpg
peaman
Contributing Partner
That's a big difference in values. Looks to me like the pump has 1/8" female pipe thread openings and it is available with 1/8" MPT x 5/16" barb fittings for connection to rubber fuel hoses. Maybe post links to the conflicting sources if this doesn't help.
peaman
Contributing Partner
For those challenged in ciphering pipe, we don't normally refer to thread count for common pipe fittings like we do for bolts. while bolts are available in NC or NF (National Coarse and National Fine, respectively), common pipe fittings only have one thread spec for each pipe size. But be careful not to confuse or mix common "tapered" pipe thread fittings with straight pipe threads. The latter are commonly found in fixtures, like faucet connections, and in specialty fittings like the grey "Qest" fittings in the water piping systems originally installed in many of our boats. Whenever you see NPT, MPT or FPT (National, Male, and Female Pipe Thread, respectively), that should always refer only to common tapered pipe fittings. Unlike for tubing, pipe measured sizes have little correlation with "nominal" or designated pipe size, but a table like this one can be useful in deciphering. Be sure to use a couple of wraps of teflon tape on the male threads of fittings to assure a leak-free installation.
Aqua V
Member I
Who the hell needs Wikipedia, Thank you for your input, very helpful for the new guy !
Thoughts on "putty-style" thread compounds. My fuel tank manufacturer recommended a couple of brands on the market, which I've used on the fuel tank and Fuel/Sep fittings... I believe its a "longevity" thing over teflon, especially when its fuel fittings your working?
...For the pumps 12 v feed connection... from the pump mtg location its 10 feet back to control panel and "ignition switch", which has a few "red-wire" connections... should I run a wire all the way back to the control or pick an "ignition" wire on the engine. Plan on running a lugged ( - ) 12 V connection between a pump mtg foot and the engine NEG GRD BUS, as the pump will be mounted on a wood bulkhead.
Thoughts on "putty-style" thread compounds. My fuel tank manufacturer recommended a couple of brands on the market, which I've used on the fuel tank and Fuel/Sep fittings... I believe its a "longevity" thing over teflon, especially when its fuel fittings your working?
...For the pumps 12 v feed connection... from the pump mtg location its 10 feet back to control panel and "ignition switch", which has a few "red-wire" connections... should I run a wire all the way back to the control or pick an "ignition" wire on the engine. Plan on running a lugged ( - ) 12 V connection between a pump mtg foot and the engine NEG GRD BUS, as the pump will be mounted on a wood bulkhead.
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peaman
Contributing Partner
At 1.6A, the pump is a pretty small load. I would decide on wiring after considering how the original pump was connected, both per engine wiring schematic, and per actual installation. Proper wire sizes can be figured based on conductor length, voltage drop, and other factor with resources like this one.
As to pipe sealant choices, I am not familiar with "putty-style" thread compounds. Relevant considerations are 1) you don't want anything that might harden or make it difficult to re-do the connection in the future, and 2) you want to be careful not to allow any sealant material debris to come loose in the pipe, as that could clog small passages, etc. I prefer teflon tape because it usually works well for all applications, it is not messy (working in tight spaces and difficult conditions can magnify this point), and it doesn't go bad, whereas a can of pipe dope can dry out or rust during storage.
As to pipe sealant choices, I am not familiar with "putty-style" thread compounds. Relevant considerations are 1) you don't want anything that might harden or make it difficult to re-do the connection in the future, and 2) you want to be careful not to allow any sealant material debris to come loose in the pipe, as that could clog small passages, etc. I prefer teflon tape because it usually works well for all applications, it is not messy (working in tight spaces and difficult conditions can magnify this point), and it doesn't go bad, whereas a can of pipe dope can dry out or rust during storage.
Ref: Fuel-line thread sealants: (LINK)
This way, you have only one wire running power from the panel back to the engine, and then individual fuses for each item powered by that wire. You can see more on engine panel re-wiring ideas here: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/another-engine-panel-upgrade-pt-1.701/
For the ground, most folks mount a ground-bus-bar near the engine to collect ALL the grounds on the boat (batteries, engine panel, main electrical panel, other individual devices).
Backyard mechanics will tell you they've used regular old gas resistant teflon tape (yellow stuff) with success. This is not recommended because it risks breaking free. Liquid or paste type thread sealants are kinder to sensitive components down stream. Mechanics repairing injectors, fuel pumps and carburetors can tell you firsthand it is not uncommon to trace fault in the fuel component to clogging from a piece of Teflon tape that washed off the ends of the threads, clogging in the first tiny micron orifice it encounters, if not the fuel pump then an injector or carburetor gallery. Either way, it's a costly repair. Liquid or paste type sealant won't clog. For gasoline, regular old gasoline resistant Aviation Form-a-gasket Number 3 is the best option. Another product also offered by Permatex is the High Temperature Thread Sealant. Tech data on this sealant says it has medium solvent resistance and is recommended for fuel sender type applications. With the advent of ethanol present in modern gasoline, try Form-a-gasket No. 3.
I've used Gasoila thread sealant and Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on oil & fuel fittings.
Ref: The 12V wiring to the pump:On many boats, Ericson "cheated" and didn't run a dedicated wire from the engine panel to the pump. On mine, they spliced into the small (18ga, I think) alternator excitation lead (purple wire). It worked okay, but I think that wire was undersized for the long run from the engine panel.
It might be worthwhile to plan for the future a bit here: Think about all the things in the engine compartment you might someday want powered from the ON side of the engine panel (fuel pump, alternator excitation, hour-meter, future temperature/pressure alarms, etc), then run a heavier gauge wire (say, 10GA) from the engine panel to a fuse block in the engine compartment.
For the ground, most folks mount a ground-bus-bar near the engine to collect ALL the grounds on the boat (batteries, engine panel, main electrical panel, other individual devices).
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Aqua V
Member I
Kenneth, Thank-you, nice work!
Little background; 1980 Pearson 32 w/ M15, 2 cylinder engine that was on the hard for over 6 years, motor seized lack of exercise...Purchased a completely rebuilt M25 with "XP" Mods (even got to choose the color), included brand new control panel, which closely matched the "standard" M25, Ericson, Catalina, Pearson wiring, all with their own "touches". My understanding was that the M15 didn't use a "electric pump"? The DC power buses are a great addition, I have the negative side covered. I've repalced everything engine related from the transom exhaust fitting to the raw water input.
Sailed and raced OPB's for 30 years, this is my first boat and its been motor free for a few years. I really want to splash the girl, press the start button, chase leaks and be able to back into my slip across the Patuxent, then I can focus on "upgardes later. I've learned a "boatload" on all of the Aqua-V's systems on the fly. Thanks to forums like this, friends and online resources I've been able to do most of the work on my own. I didn't operate the back-hoe, but handled the chain-fall, old shipyard days... all bring a touch of pride!
JD
Little background; 1980 Pearson 32 w/ M15, 2 cylinder engine that was on the hard for over 6 years, motor seized lack of exercise...Purchased a completely rebuilt M25 with "XP" Mods (even got to choose the color), included brand new control panel, which closely matched the "standard" M25, Ericson, Catalina, Pearson wiring, all with their own "touches". My understanding was that the M15 didn't use a "electric pump"? The DC power buses are a great addition, I have the negative side covered. I've repalced everything engine related from the transom exhaust fitting to the raw water input.
Sailed and raced OPB's for 30 years, this is my first boat and its been motor free for a few years. I really want to splash the girl, press the start button, chase leaks and be able to back into my slip across the Patuxent, then I can focus on "upgardes later. I've learned a "boatload" on all of the Aqua-V's systems on the fly. Thanks to forums like this, friends and online resources I've been able to do most of the work on my own. I didn't operate the back-hoe, but handled the chain-fall, old shipyard days... all bring a touch of pride!
JD