Cracks @ Rudder Post and Loose Strut

[JSM]

I can only assume that this cavity should have been fill with solid fiberglass especially since it is adjacent to the bottom rudder bearing. It appears this problem has been there since 1987 when the boat was built. I'm wondering how may other Ericsons have this manufacturing flaw if you want to call it that.

When I did the West System repair on the rudder bearing on our 34-2 I discovered that void. When I attempted to drill an injection hole into the rear of the bearing I had to drill thru that area on an angle to get to the bearing. The drill punched thru into nothingness. Yes the area is fairly thin. I spent a lot of time in the rear lazarette studying the position of the lower bearing before drilling into it and if my memory serves me correctly that rectangular hollow area above the rudder is not visible from inside of the boat ( I'll check this afternoon) and was possibly glassed on after the hull came out of the mold?
Looking at your pics the cracks appear to be thru bottom paint and filler and are hopefully just superficial. I would grind them out wider to get a better idea and them refill the areas.

 

[Bolo]

I don’t think it’s grease but, for lack of a better term, very dirty water mixed with a dirt of some kind. If it were grease then there would be a separation of the grease from the liquid and I didn’t feel that in this case. I could be wrong. I also suggested that the marina, after they add fiberglass layers to the outside, pour some thickened fiberglass INSIDE that section of the hull and against the rudder tube to add additional strength and thickness to the area. It just seems like the prudent thing to do, IMHO.

SORRY: This was meant to be a reply to Captain Pete’s comments not a new posting.

 

[Bolo]

When I did the West System repair on the rudder bearing on our 34-2 I discovered that void. When I attempted to drill an injection hole into the rear of the bearing I had to drill thru that area on an angle to get to the bearing. The drill punched thru into nothingness. Yes the area is fairly thin. I spent a lot of time in the rear lazarette studying the position of the lower bearing before drilling into it and if my memory serves me correctly that rectangular hollow area above the rudder is not visible from inside of the boat ( I'll check this afternoon) and was possibly glassed on after the hull came out of the mold?
Looking at your pics the cracks appear to be thru bottom paint and filler and are hopefully just superficial. I would grind them out wider to get a better idea and them refill the areas.

Interesting and certainly possible. Either way the yard is going to grind down that area more and hopefully fill in that “mystery space” with some fiberglass. If I was younger and lived closer to the boat I’d be doing all this work myself.

 

[Bolo]

I get all that you are planning on this repair - especially adding extras layers of glass for strength and repair of cracks where the glass layup is thin.

What I don't exactly get with Ericsons is how the grease comes into play down there and wonder if some of that black goo is just old grease where there may actually be a designed void intended to be filled with grease. I think I read somewhere on this sight and viewing one of Christian's video that when there is play in the lower rudder bearing it often indicates the need to add grease to make the play go away and rudder to spin better.

I’d like to see or hear the comments on the grease issue that Christian made.

 

[Christian Williams]

Grease in the rudder tube is important to prevent seawater incursion at the upper gland, and also for lubricating the rudder post for easy turning. (Many rudder tubes have corroded grease Zerks (nipples) and have not been lubricated for decades)

There doesn't seem to be evidence that grease affects rudder wobble or play.

 

[Kenneth K]

What I don't exactly get with Ericsons is how the grease comes into play down there...

Most bearings need to be lubricated. The upper bearing bearing has a typical grease fitting (zerk) installed so that one is easy to maintain.

The lower bearing (which sits in salt water) needs lubrication even more, but since the bearing is embedded in the hull, you can't put a zerk on it. What Ericson did was to install a zerk fitting in the rudder tube (above the lower bearing and below the rudder packing gland). After 30 years or so, most of us discover that our original zerk fittings are long-ago rusted away and useless.


I believe it was Christian who first advocated, on this site, for drilling/tapping/inserting a new zerk fitting so that the rudder tube can be packed with fresh grease.

Packing the rudder tube with grease (and it takes 1-2 full grease cartridges to fill it) does two things: 1. Grease is forced down into the lower bearing (between the bearing and the rudder post, NOT between the bearing and the hull) which provides corrosion and wear protection. And, 2. Grease is forced upward against the packing gland which helps prevent the gland from leaking saltwater into the boat.

While I believe the rudder packing gland was designed to make the rudder tube water-tight (like the shaft log packing gland does for the prop shaft), Ericson did a poor job glassing the gland into the top of the rudder tube. So, many owners find leaks at the top of the rudder tube (just below the packing gland) while motoring at higher speeds (motoring makes the stern squat lower in the water, placing the top of the rudder tube closer the waterline).


I didn't have leaks, but when I pack my lower rudder zerk with grease, I know it's full when grease comes oozing out of the (poorly fit) gap between the post and the gland. Grease leaking out means that, absent the grease, water had a direct path into the boat if the stern squatted low enough.

 

[Bolo]

Grease in the rudder tube is important to prevent seawater incursion at the upper gland, and also for lubricating the rudder post for easy turning. (Many rudder tubes have corroded grease Zerks (nipples) and have not been lubricated for decades)

There doesn't seem to be evidence that grease affects rudder wobble or play.

Yes, I can't see how additional grease would reduce "rudder play" but I don't think that 1/8" movement in rudder play, that my boat seems to have, presents any urgent reason to replace the lower bearing. My rudder tube is full of grease, so much so that I could see where it squeeze out from the bottom of the bearing.

 

[Bolo]

Packing the rudder tube with grease (and it takes 1-2 full grease cartridges to fill it) does two things: 1. Grease is forced down into the lower bearing (between the bearing and the rudder post, NOT between the bearing and the hull) which provides corrosion and wear protection. And, 2. Grease is forced upward against the packing gland which helps prevent the gland from leaking saltwater into the boat.

I spent what seemed like an eternity one afternoon and pumping two cartridges by hand into my rudder tube. I'll be doing it again after the fix is done but with one of these instead. Worth the investment to me especially with arthritis in my shoulder joint.

https://www.harborfreight.com/20v-cordless-variable-speed-grease-gun-tool-only-58608.html

 

[Kenneth K]

I don’t think it’s grease but, for lack of a better term, very dirty water mixed with a dirt of some kind.

Well, you said the void went up about 2-1/2" into the hull. When I physically measured my rudder bearing (with the rudder removed) I got 6" for it's height. This would mean your void goes up less than half the length of the bearing, and not all the way into the open rudder tube above. If so, there should be no grease in the void. Still, before filling with thickened epoxy, you'll need to find a way to clean out the void (pressure washer and soap, maybe, followed by acetone) to get good adhesion with the epoxy filler.

 

[southofvictor]

Hey Bolo we just replaced our lower bushing last month and found some voids and deteriorating fairing compound when we chipped out the old one. We didn’t have any cracks but had lateral play in our rudder. Shimming would have been tough because the bushing had worn into an oval shape. It was a chore but I’m glad to have done it.

Here’s a shot of our tube with the bushing pulled.


Here’s a shot of the area cleaned up and the new bushing installed.



Here’s everything put back together.

 

[bigd14]

Here’s a shot of our tube with the bushing pulled

Nice work! How did you get the old one out?

 

[Bolo]

Nice work! How did you get the old one out?

Yes, that's my question too.

 

[southofvictor]

Nice work! How did you get the old one out?

This homemade puller plus a lot of sweat, a hammer, and some choice words.



The machine shop that fabricated the new bushing also made this tool for installing it without damaging it.

 

[Bolo]

This homemade puller plus a lot of sweat, a hammer, and some choice words.

View attachment 53816

The machine shop that fabricated the new bushing also made this tool for installing it without damaging it.

View attachment 53817

Very cool and very nice.

 

[windblown]

This is impressive. Had I seen this six months ago, we might have pulled our lower bushing rather than fairing around it. May we ask what the cost was for the fabrication of the new busing and the installation tool? And perhaps the name of the shop? There may be several of us who will want to go this direction before too long.

 

[southofvictor]

This is impressive. Had I seen this six months ago, we might have pulled our lower bushing rather than fairing around it. May we ask what the cost was for the fabrication of the new busing and the installation tool? And perhaps the name of the shop? There may be several of us who will want to go this direction before too long.

Sure, it was Taler Mecánico Gonzales in Ciudad Constitución BCS. Cost was $1050 USD for the bushing, tools, and also checking and straightening my prop shaft that had a little wobble in it.

 

[Bolo]

UPDATE: While I’m away on a much needed vacation the work on the boat is progressing nicely according to the marina service manager. Here is a photo of the rudder tube area that was cracked and now ground down and filled. Looks good to me.


The rudder was dropped and there are some rust stains running down from the rudder post. Correct me if I’m wrong but the rudder posts are stainless steel? I’m think that this is from the stainless not getting any O2 which, as I’ve been told, promotes this sort of rusting. That’s why vinyl coated life lines are no recommend any longer. The post looks sound and the marina hasn’t said that they see a problem (yet) but does this look typical for a rudder that hasn’t been out of the boat for awhile?

 

[Pete the Cat]

UPDATE: While I’m away on a much needed vacation the work on the boat is progressing nicely according to the marina service manager. Here is a photo of the rudder tube area that was cracked and now ground down and filled. Looks good to me.
View attachment 53894

The rudder was dropped and there are some rust stains running down from the rudder post. Correct me if I’m wrong but the rudder posts are stainless steel? I’m think that this is from the stainless not getting any O2 which, as I’ve been told, promotes this sort of rusting. That’s why vinyl coated life lines are no recommend any longer. The post looks sound and the marina hasn’t said that they see a problem (yet) but does this look typical for a rudder that hasn’t been out of the boat for awhile?
View attachment 53895

I would agree that it looks, in the picture, typical of what you would see in a boat of this era. I don't like commenting on limited pictures and there could be other things, but it seems you have a competent boatyard. Most of the time the folks who work in modern boatyards know a lot more than those of us who have been owners of boats for a few decades. I think our help is better when there are specific questions about a boat design or special maintenance issues. Also, I think we can be helpful in giving a range of feedback on our experiences with working with boatyard experts. I think it is important to get involved with the boat repair and maintenance so you understand what is being done and why, but it is also important to have a boatyard manager whose judgement you can generally trust.

 

[Drewm3i]

UPDATE: While I’m away on a much needed vacation the work on the boat is progressing nicely according to the marina service manager. Here is a photo of the rudder tube area that was cracked and now ground down and filled. Looks good to me.
View attachment 53894

The rudder was dropped and there are some rust stains running down from the rudder post. Correct me if I’m wrong but the rudder posts are stainless steel? I’m think that this is from the stainless not getting any O2 which, as I’ve been told, promotes this sort of rusting. That’s why vinyl coated life lines are no recommend any longer. The post looks sound and the marina hasn’t said that they see a problem (yet) but does this look typical for a rudder that hasn’t been out of the boat for awhile?
View attachment 53895

I don't like all of that weeping rusty water (indicative of crevice corrosion). Again, for your usage it is *probably* fine, but if you were heading offshore I would be a bit leery as water in there can cause the whole structure to delaminate and simply come unbonded.

 

[tenders]

I don't like all of that weeping rusty water (indicative of crevice corrosion). Again, for your usage it is *probably* fine, but if you were heading offshore I would be a bit leery as water in there can cause the whole structure to delaminate and simply come unbonded.

I was worried about this with my OEM rudder (1969-2010), which had several other concerning signs of being waterlogged and weakened.

I found, after replacing it with a new one from Foss Foam, that although the foam was old and wet and undoubtedly subject to many freeze/thaw cycles in the winter, and there were many spider cracks in the surrounding glass, it was slowly oozing rusty water from some of those cracks and from the top of the rudder, and the steel structure within was somewhat rusty after I cut it out, that it had plenty of structural fortitude remaining.

My new one now occasionally seeps some rust after haulout. I am not concerned.

You just don’t hear a lot about Ericson rudders (or any others, really) falling apart in the middle of the season. It doesn’t happen often for a reason.