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cranky starting - ignition sequence

K2MSmith

Sustaining Member
Hello and Merry Christmas,

Kind of a newbie question....I notice my Universal 25 has been a bit cranky in starting up from cold and I recall in summer it started up right away when cold. I have glow plug and an air blower. Is the proper procedure to turn ON the ignition key (so red panel light goes on) -prior- to warming with the glow plug for 20-30 seconds ? I can't recall if I always did it that way. I am thinking maybe the fuel pump needs to run for a minute or two before starting ?
 

1911tex

Sustaining Member
Same engine here 5421. My normal starting sequence after crawling down on my knees to reach the control panel: key on...hear buzzing and hold down glow plug button for 10-15 seconds...then while "continuing" to hold the glow plug button, hit starter, then let go of both once engine starts. I put throttle at about 35%-40% when starting then immediately throttle back to 900. Engine starts first revolution every time.
 

K2MSmith

Sustaining Member
Same engine here 5421. My normal starting sequence after crawling down on my knees to reach the control panel: key on...hear buzzing and hold down glow plug button for 10-15 seconds...then while "continuing" to hold the glow plug button, hit starter, then let go of both once engine starts. I put throttle at about 35%-40% when starting then immediately throttle back to 900. Engine starts first revolution every time.
Thanks 1911, I’ll try that sequence. I have not been turning the key ON before glow plug and I don’t think I’ve ever held the glow plug on while turning the key. Incidentally, I don’t hear a buzzer. Maybe mine doesn’t work or I don’t have one installed. I have the Universal 25 panel. ‘82 boat.
 

JSM

Member III
My M25xp also required long glow plug button time. Even on warm days I had to hold the button down for 30 seconds before hitting the starter button.
Last year I wired a 4 pin automotive relay into the glow plug circuit. The relay allows the power to flow directly from the battery to the glow plugs when the button is pushed instead of from the battery to the panel and back to the glow plugs via thin gauge wiring resulting in the glow plugs taking longer to heat up aka "slow glow".
Now (even on a cold Oct. day in Chicago} a quick 10 count on the glow plug button is all that's needed. Total cost of the project is about $10.00.

 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Replacing glow plugs is a simple fix that along with the solenoid mod get the glow plugs up to temperature much faster. Glow plugs are available at Kubota tractor stores for about $15 each.
 

HerbertFriedman

Member III
At least one of the glow plugs on my M25xp engine is quite difficult if not impossible to remove without removing the entire intake manifold. If someone has found a technique to remove all the glow plugs, maybe some tool modification, please let us know.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
First try 30-60 seconds of glow plug. Make sure your batteries and starter can turn the engine energetically --diesels need a healthy spin. (see first link below)

The glow plug wiring mod is a popular one. I changed my glow plugs on the M25, then later found they all tested fine on the bench. There's really not much to go wrong with glow plugs.

Some links"



 
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wynkoop

Member III
Now that is is colder I am wondering what those of us without glow plugs do for cold weather starting? Have not tried to start the new engine cold yet. Tomorrow will be the first time I will try a cold weather start.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Brett,
I think glow plugs are very useful to start a cold engine, but if they are not available, there are other ways to heat your engine. Others will have ideas too, but I would try aiming a heater at the engine for a while, using a hair dryer, putting an old blanket over the engine overnight to keep it from getting too cold, adding a trouble lamp to the engine compartment to heat the area (careful with wires, hoses, etc.), adding a battery warmer to the batteries, ensuring the batteries are fully charged before trying to start the engine. If necessary, you could disable the compression with the lever on the engine, then crank the engine, and release the lever to get it to start.
Just some thoughts to get you started, but others can add to this, correct any wrong ideas, and get you underway. :)
Frank
 

wynkoop

Member III
I have been thinking of sticking a heater in the coolant loop like I had on my old Ford F-250 years ago.

I am going to try starting at about 32 degrees tomorrow just to give it a go. If that fails I expect I will have to come up with some heat plan. All the plans I have come up with seem to require shore power. I am hoping someone may have an idea that does not require shore power.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I have been thinking of sticking a heater in the coolant loop like I had on my old Ford F-250 years ago.

I am going to try starting at about 32 degrees tomorrow just to give it a go. If that fails I expect I will have to come up with some heat plan. All the plans I have come up with seem to require shore power. I am hoping someone may have an idea that does not require shore power.
Brett,
If you have an alcohol or propane heater you can heat up a clay pot, then place it in the enclosed engine compartment to heat it. If you can place a candle securely in the engine compartment, it would provide heat, but would need careful monitoring to avoid fire. Just thinking... but be careful.
Frank
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Good time to try the compression lever (which I never have). It relieves valve pressure and lets the engine turn over faster, thus helping the starter motor. Also helps engine lubricate before oil pressure is up.

This info comes from reading tractor forums--the real practical experts on Kubotas being farmers. A tractor has a wire to pull the lever atop the engine from the comfort of the driver's seat. Our compression levers don't usually have a wire, so that means a fast run back from the helm to close it after the engine starts.
 

wynkoop

Member III
If it is cranky tomorrow I am toying with the idea of a 12 volt window defroster aimed at the air intake.

The heating something on the stove idea is a good one. My big concern is starting if I have no shore power. If I have shore power the electric heater pointing at the open engine compartment will do it. The real issue is if you make a 50 or 60 mile winter passage under sail then need the engine to get into a tricky port. It will be cold and maybe cranky.
 

wynkoop

Member III
Heck if I have shore power there are lots of preheat options, but like I said I am thinking starting with no shore power. There is a good chance if I had completed all my refit stuff I would be taking a cruise over the holidays. Yep I actually use the boat in the dead of winter in the north east.
 

Jenkins

Member II
Brett,
If you have an alcohol or propane heater you can heat up a clay pot, then place it in the enclosed engine compartment to heat it. If you can place a candle securely in the engine compartment, it would provide heat, but would need careful monitoring to avoid fire. Just thinking... but be careful.
Frank
I think heating the clay pot will not be too effective. While clay has a specific heat capacity that is about three times that of iron, the mass of the engine compared to the pot is huge.

good luck,

peter
 

Chris Mc.

Member III
Here is an excerpt from my owners manual. Universal M25
8. Press "Glow Plug" button for 30 to 60 seconds, depending on the outside temperature. Continue to hold glow plug button while pressing "Start" button to crank engine. Release both buttons immediately after engine starts. Go to 11.
NOTE: YOU MUST HOLD GLOW PLUG BUTTON IN TO ENERGIZE THE STARTER BUTTON
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I am recalling the older M25 did have the starter button combined with the pre-heat control, but that had changed by the time they were producing our '88 M25XP (separate buttons on the stock panel). Also, we only had to glow-plug the engine for over 15 seconds when the ambient temp. was under 35 or 40. I once had to start it when the temp. was about 25 F, and it took 20 seconds of pre-heat. (!)

Aside: I had our starter motor rebuilt as a PM measure at about 1000 hours. The engine *immediately* started twice as quickly after that. :)
Sometimes these parts degrade so slowly we just do not notice, and accept lowered performance as normal.
 
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K2MSmith

Sustaining Member
Here is an excerpt from my owners manual. Universal M25
8. Press "Glow Plug" button for 30 to 60 seconds, depending on the outside temperature. Continue to hold glow plug button while pressing "Start" button to crank engine. Release both buttons immediately after engine starts. Go to 11.
NOTE: YOU MUST HOLD GLOW PLUG BUTTON IN TO ENERGIZE THE STARTER BUTTON
Thanks for posting. I could not find an owners manual for the M 25 only a service manual. It looks like I have been doing a few things wrong after owning the boat for 5 months. I have not been starting the motor holding while holding the glow plug switch. I also have not been preheating with the glow plug with ignition key on. the boat always started anyway after one second in summer but now that is colder here it has not started as quickly and perhaps it is just my sequence has been wrong...
 

1911tex

Sustaining Member
What Loren said above (post 17) is apropos. I installed a new starter last year and Loren has it pegged! Like night and day..new starter does not finish first rev when engine starts with < 15 seconds glow plug button (post 2).
 

Chris Mc.

Member III
Thanks for posting. I could not find an owners manual for the M 25 only a service manual. It looks like I have been doing a few things wrong after owning the boat for 5 months. I have not been starting the motor holding while holding the glow plug switch. I also have not been preheating with the glow plug with ignition key on. the boat always started anyway after one second in summer but now that is colder here it has not started as quickly and perhaps it is just my sequence has been wrong...
I tried to attach the owner’s manual here but the file is too large. If you’d like, I can send it to you.
I thought 30-60 seconds was a bit excessive and was initially holding the glow plug “plunger” for 20 seconds yet my starts were slow. When I extended the glow plug hit for 30-40 seconds, my engine starts a whole lot quicker.
 
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