Cutlass bearing [Also: rudder post play]

[Mike Siegel]

So I have pulled my new to me 30 plus for the winter . I didn't pull the boat when I bought it , price was right . So I need to drop the rudder to investigate alot of play . And also need to replace the cutlass bearing . Would anyone know the dimensions of the cutlass bearing in a 30+ ? Obviously I will measure once removed but curious if its a standard size that someone would know.

 

[Frank Langer]

As far as I know, all E30+ boats have a 1" diameter prop shaft, though it's always good to measure yours to be sure the boat has not been modified. A simple caliper tool can be bought cheaply to measure that.
I don't know the length of the strut that holds the cutless bearing.
Frank

 

[Dave G.]

I would definitely measure it. All the info I could find suggested my replacement (30+) would be 1" (Cutless ID) shaft with a 1 1/4"
(Cutless OD)strut x 4" long. Turned out mine had a 1 1/2" strut (cutless OD). Not sure if the research was wrong or if my strut had been replaced or altered.

 

[Mike Siegel]

I'll be tackling this on the weekend. Hopefully the shaft comes off the transmission without too much of a fight

 

[kapnkd]

I'll be tackling this on the weekend. Hopefully the shaft comes off the transmission without too much of a fight

When replacing our 32’s cutlass bearing, loosening the shaft was the least of our struggles. Getting the old cutlass bearing out of the cutlass strut had me in a confessional for a week...and I’m NOT a Catholic!! ;-)))

Be prepared with a gear puller, a hammer, hack saw and definitely a fight you will not soon forget! Whatever time you’re allowing - at least double it.

 

[william.haas]

There are tools (StrutPro I believe) that allow for removal of the bearing without removing the shaft. This method works by pressing out the bearing and then pressing the new one in using the tool and evenly applied force. Mine was recently replaced by exchanging use of the expensive tool from a marine mechanic friend for some craft beer.

There is also a method using a threaded rod, nuts, and a ton of washers that was successfully applied on our previous boat… but that was so many years ago I do not recall exactly what we did. That also might indicate it was so successful that I blocked it from my memory never wanting to recall the experience.

if you are pulling the prop shaft I believe there is a MarineHowTo article on the project.

 

[Mike Siegel]

I am an automotive mechanic so I will be trying some automotive stuff before I get primitive on it lol

 

[tenders]

Not much point to finessing the removal of the old Cutless bearing once you have the shaft out. Use a Sawzall, judiciously, or assemble a hacksaw inside the bearing, and slice sections of the old bearing out until you can tap out the remaining shell. Clean up the inside of the strut with some 300 grit sandpaper, apply antiseize to the new bearing, and squeeze it in with some threaded rod, stacks of properly-sized washers, and nuts.

The hard part of this job IMO is getting the shaft coupling off the shaft where it connects to the engine.

 

[Dave G.]

So I need to drop the rudder to investigate alot of play

When I dropped mine it had about .015 of shim material wrapped around the bottom of the shaft . It also was bone dry with no grease in the tube at all. I decided to reassemble without the shimming and due to input from others on this extraordinary site(thanks Christian) I pumped the tube full of grease and low and behold no play. I pulled the boat out for the season last week and it's still rock solid. Also check the top bearing to see if the fitting is loose or bearing is worn. You should have 2 grease(zerk) fittings on your rudder, one for the top bearing and the other on the FG tube 4-6" below the packing collar. Make sure they work before you put the rudder back in, it's easier to verify and fix with it out. If they haven't been used in years they will be corroded shut probably

 

[Mike Siegel]

Looks like most of the play is coming from the top of the rudder . I won't know why till I get in there. Updates and pictures possibly tomorrow

 

[Mike Siegel]

It may be hard to see from the picture but one problem has been found . Looks like someone neglected to bolt the top plate to the cockpit floor . The fiberglass post is basically free standing . I don't know how it didn't tear away in some of the seas I was in the last month .

 

[Mike Siegel]

 

[Dave G.]

Yowser ! That looks scary even on Halloween. Seems crazy anyone would deliberately put it together that way. Is the bearing locked up on the post?

 

[Frank Langer]

View attachment 40719

So I'm wondering if this is typical of how this boat was maintained, what else may need attention - - the standing rigging, keel bolts, electrical wiring, seacocks, etc. to ensure the boat is seaworthy. Be careful! It might be worth hiring a good surveyor to go through the boat and provide a list of recommended repairs, or at least a good friend with lots of sailboat experience.
Frank

 

[Christian Williams]

Good catch. As has been said here by several members lately, that particular bearing is easy to miss in routine inspections of the boat.

That's because viewing it requires determined contortions under the cockpit and a flashlight.

For the record, in the photo in Post #12, the machine screws are supposed to go through the flange, and the nuts then draw the bearing up snug against the underside of the cockpit floor.

If the bearing becomes loose, the rudder post wobbles. This can be observed under sail by removing the cockpit plate, when a wobbling post is obvious, especially when tacking. I had a top bearing so loose that the wobbling scored the underside of the cockpit plate.

A simple cockpit test of the security of the bearing is just to try to turn the four machine screws. They shouldn't turn easily. If they do, the nuts under the cockpit are loose. A loose top bearing can't be observed from the cockpit, because the plate itself doesn't move--only the bearing within.

Also: the grease fitting in the photo above looks rusted closed. They're hard to access anyhow. I just apply grease from the cockpit to the top of the rudder post, and it seems to ooze down sufficiently to do its job.

 

[Mike Siegel]

Yes the grease fitting is a ball of rust . I didn't get the quadrant off yesterday , the bolts are corroded in . I'm going back with my electric impact gun next weekend . The lower bearing needs attention as well. I didn't see the second grease fitting on the shaft , someone said 5 to 6 inches down ? Is it facing to the stern?

 

[Dave G.]

The grease zerk on my rudder tube was facing aft, so yours most likely the same. From the looks of the fitting on that bearing you will need to install a new one on the tube anyway so put it where it's easiest to access. Be careful with the impact gun as the quadrant is aluminum. Does that top bearing flange move freely around the post ?

 

[Mike Siegel]

The grease zerk on my rudder tube was facing aft, so yours most likely the same. From the looks of the fitting on that bearing you will need to install a new one on the tube anyway so put it where it's easiest to access. Be careful with the impact gun as the quadrant is aluminum. Does that top bearing flange move freely around the post ?

Yes bearing moves .

 

[Christian Williams]

New Zerk (grease fitting) installed on E32-3 rudder tube. The old frozen one was left in place, visible at left.



E38 tube Zerk. This model came with a female fitting, with plug. The plug can be removed and a grease fitting inserted as needed. The larger size makes sense for any rudder tube.

 

[Mike Siegel]

O

New Zerk (grease fitting) installed on E32-3 rudder tube. The old frozen one was left in place, visible at left.

View attachment 40729

E38 tube Zerk. This model came with a female fitting, with plug. The plug can be removed and a grease fitting inserted as needed. The larger size makes sense for any rudder tube.

View attachment 40731

On the 32 did you just drill a hole and epoxy in the zerk?