Deck hardware rearrangement

Hagar2sail

Member II
Do people know if the modern Schaefer stuff has the same mounting pattern as the old stuff? Took our deck organizer off this weekend because for one, one sheave was for a wire, and second, that sheave was frozen. If they still have the same pattern I might just buy a new double stacked triple, as I found out during removal the organizer was original to the boat. There is a washer for it under the overhead batten for the vinyl roof. Would make it very hard to Plug the hole....CBD11623-EA26-4117-881C-B0F9CE9D19F3.jpg
 
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Hagar2sail

Member II
Good to know! That will help tremendously.

Separate but somewhat related, I looked through my boom and none of the reefing lines or the outhaul are run through any kind of multiplication device. I would think if I am using the winch and clutch at the cabin top to provide all the force for my reefing lines aren’t I stressing the sheaves at the gooseneck quite a lot? Is this factory? My outhaul isn’t even led back, just goes out the side of the boom to a cleat while the topping lift is led aft. Seems backwards to me.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
I believe what you describe is factory. The reefing lines are long--esp. a third reef--a purchase would be hard to set up, and simplicity works best.

They do put a strain on the sheaves, since reef lines do need to be cranked tight. But the factory setup seems to handle it fine, especially if the turning blocks and deck organizers are not frozen solid, which is often the case with boats that were seldom if ever reefed (because reefing seemed so hard...).
 

Hagar2sail

Member II
I believe what you describe is factory. The reefing lines are long--esp. a third reef--a purchase would be hard to set up, and simplicity works best.

They do put a strain on the sheaves, since reef lines do need to be cranked tight. But the factory setup seems to handle it fine, especially if the turning blocks and deck organizers are not frozen solid, which is often the case with boats that were seldom if ever reefed (because reefing seemed so hard...).
Makes a lot of sense when you put it that way...
 

Hagar2sail

Member II
Christian, after reading your deck organizer blog, I went looking. Seems like I have a choice of pure Delrin sheaves or ones with a bronze bushing if I just want to replace them as you mention. The ones that came out of my organizer seem to be of the bronze persuasion, but it seems like if I went and paid big money for a new one (which still may yet happen to get a double stacked set) they come with the pure delrin ones. So are the bronze bearing ones just overkill? One bronze lined one is around $35-40 whereas the delrin is about $12, so big difference!

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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
I am the $12 type. Although I did lose a few girlfriends to bronze bushing types, I knew all along that I was easily replaceable.

Also, re current Lewmar line clutches:

I checked yesterday, and you're right, there is a "detent" to keep Lewmar line clutches open. So I will go back and correct my caution about such a lack.
You (I) just have to remember to push them all the way open, and then they stay that way. My error.
 
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Kenneth K

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Mostly concerned since on the port side I would have 2 halyards with constant tension on them which doesn’t leave me a lot left for my reefing lines if those occupy the other slots.
I considered this too. Rather than running my roller-furled jib halyard through a deck organizer and a line clutch, I plan on just adding a horn cleat to the mast and terminating the jib halyard there.

That leaves the lower 3 organizer sheaves to Port available for Spin Halyard, Reef #2 Outhaul, and one Spare sheave. Upper sheaves will be Reef #2 Downhaul and Pole Lift--both low-load lines (I'm stacking 2 over 3 for Port deck organizers, using the original 2-sheave organizer that was mounted to Stbd over the original 3 sheave organizer in place. For starboard, I bought a new 2 over 2, 5 series Schaefer organizer).

My only concern is finding a location on the mast where the horn cleat won't foul flagging jib sheets.
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
Ken and Hagar,

Have you considered moving one of the halyards (main or jib, whichever suits your limited space arrangement at the clutches) to exit to other side of the mast? It's just a matter of fishing the halyard tail out of another mast exit.

I would ALWAYS want to be able to tension my roller furled genoa halyard with a winch. A winch on the mast works or simpler, a high load clutch/jammer on the mast below the halyard exit with the halyard lead aft to an existing winch. Once up and tensioned, with the mast clutch shut, the RF genoa halyard can be run back to the mast for the season.

I have a horn cleat on both sides of the mast. I also have a Harken cam on each side of the mast, super useful:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?328-Halyard-Cams-on-the-Mast

I used Spinlock T/50-4 deck organizers stacked for 8 lines each side. They are rated for 2200# per sheave with no word on de-rating the top. The bottom of top unit locks into the top of the bottom unit at each bolt which makes it pretty solid. Even a huge de-rate still yields a high load rating.

The reef lines are just outhauls. Mine are 2:1. The loads will be higher than the outhaul because of the higher wind speed (even with the smaller sail area) and you need a winch to get the reef line tight quickly with the sail flogging but the load when the reef is snug is certainly less than the halyards.

Mark
 

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Kenneth K

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Thanks for the pictures Mark. Looks like you're rigged for speed! Those Spinlock organizers are nice. If the outermost two screws are through-bolted, that would be considerably more holding power than the Schaefers, which are only through-bolted at the sheave axles. Maybe that's why yours are rated at such a higher load.

That cam-cleat set up for halyards is pretty slick, too. I probably won't get to it this season, but I'm keeping that one on the list.
 

MarineCityBrian

Apprentice Tinkerer
Here's how I set up mine:
Deck Layout Picture.jpgIMG_20170729_231639.jpgIMG_20170807_161031.jpgIMG_20170809_232651.jpg

And I put plugs of solid 406 (colloidal silica) thickened epoxy (drilled from beneath with a hole saw, stopping at the inside of the top layer of glass; if you want to go full-bore you could put a layer or two of new biaxial cloth beneath the plugs beveled-into the existing inner glass, but I didn't and my plugs have held great so far). Here's a link to those posts where there is also a link to bedding with Butyl Tape - far and away better (and cheaper!) than 4200 and much easier to deal with. Only thing is it breaks down with grease so not the greatest for winches, but I've got it on all of my new deck hardware and NO leaks thus far (~2 years in).
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?14584-E35-3-Aft-led-lines-and-Traveler-Setup/page2&highlight=traveller+setup
Deck hardware mounting/reinforcement/rebedding starts near the end of the page.

Here's a direct link to the re-bedding with butyl tape tutorial:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebedding_hardware

Toward the top of the page I explain how to upgrade the original Ronstan traveler cam cleats with simple hand tools (bastard file), and also upgrade to Garhauer ball-bearing sheaves (if you're so inclined).

And I can attest to the awesomeness of the Lewmar rope clutches. Never jam, ALWAYS easy to release. I forget if I got the '1' or the '2', but I thought the '1'. They're plenty.
 

Hagar2sail

Member II
Gotta get the pictures to post so I can do the "after". We finished moving our hardware and updated all the clutches to the lewmar DC2's. One unfortunate find is the starboard core by the winches is soft. Looks like it is 3/4" marine ply, but it was wet throughout. Being plywood, I am assuming water will seep a long way from the source compared to end grain balsa. Didn't take any immediate action, trying to decide from what direction to attack it, since it probably means removing the headliner......
 

MarineCityBrian

Apprentice Tinkerer
Brian, where did you get the wire outline of the boat you used in your setup picture?
From somewhere on the site....(now to remember where....)....
Ok - after pondering I believe it's in the E35-3 manual amongst the drawings. Then I just enlarged it on my screen and took a snip of it and embedded it in the Excel file I used to make that file.
Do you want me to just email you the Excel file?
 
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MarineCityBrian

Apprentice Tinkerer
Also, one improvement I hope to make at some future point is to raise up the rope clutches on a riser. Despite putting the clutches as close to the traveler as I could (while still being able to open fully without pinching a finger) and placing the winches as far aft as I could while still getting into good coring, the entry angle of the line from the clutch to the winch is a bit steep. I'd like to pull them up so the line is around 3/4" to 1" from the underside of the traveler track and that should make entry into the winches far better/straighter. Just food for thought when planning your deck layout.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Or, put a wedge piece under the winch base so it tilts back about 4 degrees. Solves the angle-of-line-into-drum problem sometimes.
 

MarineCityBrian

Apprentice Tinkerer
Or, put a wedge piece under the winch base so it tilts back about 4 degrees. Solves the angle-of-line-into-drum problem sometimes.
True, and good idea, though in my case the area beneath the winch exceeds the area beneath the clutches (they're some fairly stout Barient 23 STs with a really giant base...), so I plan on opting for putting the risers beneath the clutches.
 

MarineCityBrian

Apprentice Tinkerer
Brian, where did you get the wire outline of the boat you used in your setup picture?
I offered an Excel file and in finding it this morning realized it's actually a PowerPoint. In any case, do you want the base file? Otherwise, the source of the outline picture is on page 9 of the E35-3 PDF manual posted in the downloads area.
 
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