Deck organizer question

[bsangs]

We have a pair of three-sheave stainless steel Garhauer deck organizers, through which run the mainsheet, reefing lines, outhaul and, when equipped, the boom vang. Stamped atop both is "Guaranteed until 2007." While the sheaves definitely need replacing, the bodies of both still appear to be in excellent shape. No rust, cracks, pitting, etc. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find a replacement that lines up exactly with the existing holes. They're all off just a bit. Would it be unwise to simply replace the sheaves in the existing body? I'm really trying to avoid drilling new holes - and filling the existing ones - since they'd be so close to each other, but I'm also a bit wary about the "2007" stamp, and if that means I'm risking the body blowing up on me. Thoughts?

 

[Slick470]

Have you reached out to Garhauer? They may have new old stock or can replicate what you have if you are concerned about it?

For that type of hardware though, I'd replace the sheaves if they need it and move on to the next project. The body of those deck organizers are pretty simple and unless you are seeing any bending or other physical damage, I wouldn't worry about them. Garhauer also has a reputation of making quality, overbuilt gear, at a good price and not necessarily what you would buy if you were trying to save a lot of weight.

My sense is the warranty stamp on them was more of an advertising thought showing quality and a promise to stand behind them if you did have a problem and not a 'use by date'

 

[Loren Beach]

Strictly FWIW, when I replaced the old pair of factory Lewmar 4-sheave organizers on our housetop, the new Harken organizers did fit the same holes. I was able to over drill/epoxy fill/redrill with no problems. This also enabled an upgrade to ball bearing sheaves.
(Even if the holes did not quite match, I could have epoxied in the old ones and drilled new ones beside them. The base of the new organizer fitting would very likely cover the old fastener holes. Perhaps?)

 

[Christian Williams]

In my experience the body of deck organizers are just plates, and when changing mine for new I realized I could have simply replaced the sheaves.

E381 - The Forgotten Zone of Deck Organizers, Thelonious II

A deck organizer is a set of sheaves designed specifically to redirect lines on the deck toward winches or toward the clutches (line brakes) that allow sharing of winches. And an aardvark is a nocturnal animal that eats termites through its...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[bsangs]

Strictly FWIW, when I replaced the 2 factory Lewmar organizers on our housetop, the new Harken organizers did fit the same holes. I was able to over drill/epoxy fill/redrill with no problems. This also enabled an upgrade to ball bearing sheaves.

Lucky man. I tried a new Garhauer, and then a Schaefer, organizer, neither of which lined up properly. The Schaefer failure was particularly galling, as I purchased them on sale from WM for $46 each - down from their usual $189. I'm just going to replace the sheaves and see what's what. The Schaefers will remain mothballed for potential future use.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

We have a pair of three-sheave stainless steel Garhauer deck organizers, through which run the mainsheet, reefing lines, outhaul and, when equipped, the boom vang. Stamped atop both is "Guaranteed until 2007." While the sheaves definitely need replacing, the bodies of both still appear to be in excellent shape. No rust, cracks, pitting, etc. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find a replacement that lines up exactly with the existing holes. They're all off just a bit. Would it be unwise to simply replace the sheaves in the existing body? I'm really trying to avoid drilling new holes - and filling the existing ones - since they'd be so close to each other, but I'm also a bit wary about the "2007" stamp, and if that means I'm risking the body blowing up on me. Thoughts?

Brian, when we added a starboard spinn halyard we needed more sheaves in the deck organizer so I replaced the original with a 6-pack from a local marine consignment store. The old holes look crappy, but the lead is better and the 'new' one works great. Taking a page from Christian's book, I'm going to cover the old holes with a delrin pad. Ostensibly, as a chafe guard. Eventually. I got a set of those cheek blocks so I have one for the other side when we install tack reefing lines.



The stainless frame of your original doesn't experience any force that would induce fatigue. The metal itself isn't going to just deteriorate. I'd reuse those with new sheaves with nary a second thought. I was able to find sheaves for different projects on Amazon, some with ball bearings.

I've also purchased hardware from the consignment store and cut it apart to use the sheaves.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

Brian, when we added a starboard spinn halyard we needed more sheaves in the deck organizer so I replaced the original with a 6-pack from a local marine consignment store. The old holes look crappy, but the lead is better and the 'new' one works great. Taking a page from Christian's book, I'm going to cover the old holes with a delrin pad. Ostensibly, as a chafe guard. Eventually. I got a set of those cheek blocks so I have one for the other side when we install tack reefing lines.

View attachment 55457

The stainless frame of your original doesn't experience any force that would induce fatigue. The metal itself isn't going to just deteriorate. I'd reuse those with new sheaves with nary a second thought. I was able to find sheaves for different projects on Amazon, some with ball bearings.

I've also purchased hardware from the consignment store and cut it apart to use the sheaves.
View attachment 55458

 

[HerbertFriedman]

I also would like to add some lines going back to the cockpit, do you have the name of that consignment store?

 

[Nick J]

We went with Garhauer organizers to replace the old Schaefer units. The holes didn't line up but we kept the new ones at the same angle so they covered the old holes up. When I installed them I lined up one hole, marked the other two and filled all 5 holes per organizer at once. Then when I drilled the final holes in the new epoxy plugs, 2 were just left as plugs. It looks great, just don't remove them a look at the Swiss cheese underneath.

 

[bsangs]

We went with Garhauer organizers to replace the old Schaefer units. The holes didn't line up but we kept the new ones at the same angle so they covered the old holes up. When I installed them I lined up one hole, marked the other two and filled all 5 holes per organizer at once. Then when I drilled the final holes in the new epoxy plugs, 2 were just left as plugs. It looks great, just don't remove them a look at the Swiss cheese underneath.
View attachment 55461

That looks great Nick. Completely unrelated, I do envy you fellow Ericson owners that have the stainless steel dorade guard. One of my previous owners - for reasons unbeknownst to me - removed it from our boat. The never-ending battle of genoa sheet vs. dorade cowl is a source of frustration.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

I also would like to add some lines going back to the cockpit, do you have the name of that consignment store?

We're on the East Coast so my resources tend to be this way.
Because I can walk in and rummage, the two consignment stores I use are:
Marine Consignment of Wickford
- https://www.marineconsignmentri.com/

Newport Nautical
- http://www.newportnautical.com/consignment

I follow this guy in Maryland on Instagram:
- https://sailboatparts.com/
- https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPZEU_mDVss/

 

[Slick470]

That Sailboat Parts / Anchors and Oars guy is great. I haven't made it to his store but have bought a few things from him and had him ship to me.

Another option for the Annapolis area is Bacon Sails. They have been around forever and a great resource.

 

[bsangs]

So I'm simply replacing the sheaves and reusing the plates. Garhauer sent me six new ones - #30 delrin sheaves for anyone with similar hardware. I'm going with the Bed-It Tape, and have poured over the instructions from RC Collins on Marinehowto.com. One thing I didn't see in his very detailed manifesto is how long I need to wait before sailing. I know it can take a couple days to squeeze out all the excess butyl, but can I taker her out during the interim? I'm replacing them Saturday, and we planned to go out Sunday, but I obviously don't want to undo all the work. Anyone else that's bedded with butyl tape do a quick turnaround?

 

[bsangs]

In my experience the body of deck organizers are just plates, and when changing mine for new I realized I could have simply replaced the sheaves.

E381 - The Forgotten Zone of Deck Organizers, Thelonious II

A deck organizer is a set of sheaves designed specifically to redirect lines on the deck toward winches or toward the clutches (line brakes) that allow sharing of winches. And an aardvark is a nocturnal animal that eats termites through its...

ericsonyachts.org

Christian, did you recall if you countersunk/beveled the existing holes before inserting the new bolts? Or is there no point to that since the bolt heads stay atop the organizer anyway?

 

[bigd14]

Anyone else that's bedded with butyl tape do a quick turnaround?

Yes, no problem using the same day. Butyl remains flexible and does not cure. If you install it on a warm day just tighten it down a couple times giving it a few minutes to settle in between. On a cold day use a heat gun to warm it up right before installing and you can warm the part as you tighten it. It may take a few days for it to fully bed in so a few rounds of tightening may be required. It shouldn’t leak in the interim the fitting just may be slightly loose.

 

[Christian Williams]

did you recall if you countersunk/beveled the existing holes

No need for countersink, the bolt heads stay atop the organizer.

 

[bsangs]

did you recall if you countersunk/beveled the existing holes

No need for countersink, the bolt heads stay atop the organizer.

OK. I was a little confused because in your photos I think there's a bit of butyl on a bolt thread inside the cabin, and thought that resulted from a beveled hole.

 

[bigd14]

I do countersink the bolt holes beneath deck hardware slightly. Not much, just in the gelcoat layer. This provides a much greater sealing surface area for the butyl to sit in around the bolt threads, creating a gasket. I also put butyl on the bolt threads where they run through the deck as well as around the bolt head. Most of it squeezes out but I figure sealing every small void helps. I have not found any evidence of leaks for hardware installed this way.

 

[bsangs]

I do countersink the bolt holes beneath deck hardware slightly. Not much, just in the gelcoat layer. This provides a much greater sealing surface area for the butyl to sit in around the bolt threads, creating a gasket. I also put butyl on the bolt threads where they run through the deck as well as around the bolt head. Most of it squeezes out but I figure sealing every small void helps. I have not found any evidence of leaks for hardware installed this way.

Good to know. Thanks. The small amount of butyl on the bolt head didn’t squish into the sheaves, I take it?

 

[Loren Beach]

I do countersink the bolt holes beneath deck hardware slightly. Not much, just in the gelcoat layer. This provides a much greater sealing surface area for the butyl to sit in around the bolt threads, creating a gasket. I also put butyl on the bolt threads where they run through the deck as well as around the bolt head. Most of it squeezes out but I figure sealing every small void helps.

Good idea to countersink each hole in the deck, especially where shock loading happens. EY did this for all of the holes for the genoa tracks on our boat. No leaks into coring were found, when we removed the parts -- and then I over drilled - epoxied - redrilled all the holes.

Regarding the threads on the bolts, the ship wright that guided our re-fit always cleans the threads in all new (and any reused) bolts with thinner. This removes dirt and oils that might reduce bonding of the sealant to them. This assembly step was new to me, but I trust his many years of yacht restoration knowledge. I admit to being a bit surprised by the discoloration noticed in the solvent when washing several new shiny bolts.