• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

E-27 Type Keel Failure Poll

E25/26/27/28/29 Keel Sump Failure

  • Have owned E25/26/27/28/29 and had keel/sump failure on my boat from hitting something/grounding

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Have owned E2x and had NO failure of keel/sump are on my boat from hitting something/grounding

    Votes: 7 70.0%
  • Know positively of keel/sump failure on an E25/26/27/28/29 I did not own - please post detail below

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Know positively of any other keel/sump failiure on another model Ericson - please post detail below

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    10

Emerald

Moderator
As many are aware, the E-27, and some of it's close cousins (I think we're talking 25/26/28/29 here) have a very deep sump in the aft portion of the keel. This has been a topic of much speculation as a failure/worry item.

Quite honestly, I think this has been hyped out of proportion with no data. I may be wrong, so instead of this continued worry and speculation, let's collect real data. Vote on this poll and indicate if you have first hand knowledge of an E-27 or one of her cousins having damage in this part of the keel. Now, to make sure there is some accuracy here, please make a post giving as much info as possible, especially the boats name. I want to be sure if we get a bunch of hits, we're not talking about the same boat(s).

Of note, my first Ericson was an E-27, I had heard of this, and looked around quite a bit at the area, and came to the conclusion that you needed to do something pretty stupid like put it on the rocks and let it pound - the type of thing that would damage any keel. The only E-27 I have heard of with keel damage broke free from it's mooring and did pound itself on rocks. She is named "Hang Loose" and is currently on YachtWorld and is located in Mendon Mass.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...Price=5000&currencyid=100&city=&pbsint=&ps=30

So, without further ado, let's get some real data here before we run around doing a Chicken Little about the keel exploding on a simple grounding. :devil:


-David
Independence 31
Emerald
 

Emerald

Moderator
maggie-k said:
YES!! Leak into keel sump after a small piece 1" knocked off the aft corner of the keel


What did you hit, how fast were you going, what direction were you traveling (forwards/backing) how quick did the water come in?

Thanks


-David
Independence 31
Emerald
 

maggie-k

Member II
Hi David
Forward turning to port at <1 knot, hit a rock , hardly felt the bump. The blige pump kept cycling every 15 min. So not a serious situation but it well could have been ,still it required a haulout. This design in my opinion is poor and it should not be taken lightly. When you see your bilge filling from below it is hardly hyped out of proportion. If you are lucky enough to not hit anything no problem but I sail Off the west coast of Canada in remote areas where there are a LOT of uncharted rocks. In remote areas with no facilities a more sizable hole would have created a major emergency.
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Achilles Heel Keel post

I am the one responsible for the Achilles Heel Keel post, and I am sure the sellers on yacht world.com are telling the truth. Sot there's my vote for knowing of some one who has had this problem.

This vessel broke loose from a mooring and went on the rocks taking on water through a hole in the keel. The keel has a 1 ft by 6 inch piece of glass missing. It is available at Yacht World.com for $2,500.
http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/p...42&slim=quick&

Also check out: http://www.ericson27.com/tech/alerts.html

Alert: #004
Structure Affected: Keel
Model: Ericson 27
Date: 9/25/01
Severity: Watch Closely


Description:
While it is never any sailors intention to run aground, it is especially important to be aware of your depth when reversing an Ericson 27. The back part of the keel is the sump, and the fiberglass is thin there. If you strike the bottom in this area you WILL OPEN the sump to the sea. And it will fill fast.
 

Attachments

  • attachment-1.php.jpg
    attachment-1.php.jpg
    66.7 KB · Views: 255
  • attachment.php.jpg
    attachment.php.jpg
    72.7 KB · Views: 267

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Here's another shot, if you look closely you can look down the sump and see daylight. This issue scares me a lot. I watch my depth very closely!
 

Attachments

  • Daylight.jpg
    Daylight.jpg
    83.2 KB · Views: 331

Emerald

Moderator
Hi Jeff,

I'd love to look first hand at this boat that got on the rocks. As you look at the left of the two side by side pictures you posted, it almost looks like the last 3-4 inches of the keel as it comes to the trailing edge is filled with, well some sort of filler. As I've looked at these pictures in the past, I almost wonder if some lead got knocked off also, or if the break we see is immediatly after the lead. Would also like to know the true scantlings through this part of the keel. It almost looks like an inch or two of thickened epoxy in the very bottom of the sump might be a worthwhile thing, and could be done easily enough without causing too much heat as it cured.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

and formerly an E-27
 

maggie-k

Member II
Hi Dave I agree with you it looks like someone previously filled the sump on the trailing edge of the keel with foam or something or it would be a big hole !! The amount of damage is clearly beyond the sump area we are discussing. The problem with epoxy would be the difficulty in cleaning the oil ect. collected in the deep sump so the bonding would be minimal also its very hard to dry way down there this is why i'm leaning to cement.
 
Last edited:

BrianP

Member II
I now own hang loose and to answer all your questions. the pics are worse than they appear and she was a fresh water boat. The sump had no old repairs to her and the new sump is allmost done all reinforced with new grp. The engine purrrrr's like a kitten with no tics, knocks or pings. the whole bottom job with all glass repair barrier coat etc... is at $1400 she is turning out very nice and cleaned very well with no smell at all!!! I will be sure to post pics
 

rssailor

Moderator
Keel sump failure

Well I know that 28/28+ boats and 25+/26 models do not have keel sumps david. I know this on my 25+ first hand from a nasty grounding on a rock. This grounding ripped open the bottom of my keel on Moonglow and exposed the bottom eight inches or so to be just fiberglass and foam. Now the repair neccasitated a three month haul out to dry the keel cavity out which had water intrusion into it. No water ever got inside the boat. Ryan E-25+ 1979 Moonglow
 

Annapolis E-27

Member III
Keel Sump Damage

Brian,

A question re: the photos....the bottom of your keel shows a round void. Was the entire bottom of the keel empty or was the ballast removed before the photo?
 

BrianP

Member II
e-27 keel

Annapolis E-27 said:
Brian,

A question re: the photos....the bottom of your keel shows a round void. Was the entire bottom of the keel empty or was the ballast removed before the photo?

Mark,
The rounded part you see in the pic is all most an optical illusion due to the angle. The end of the ballast is inward about 3 inches from the rounded part you see. The main thing with this is that the pics on line do not really show good, one of those things you would have to see in person. When I went to mendon mass to look at several different boats and this e-27 really got my attention, as you can see in the pics it looks very grim but before I bid on her I got 4 different estimates and looked at an e-27 on the hard when visiting VT. The woven matt on the inside was contiuous to the break and no oil or junk on or toward bottom that comprimised repair of sump. I won the bid and with delivery to where she is now (portland ct) was how I say a very good deal!! I have installed a wind angle & speed, gps chart plotter, new compass, stereo, an adittional switch & fuse panel. The sails to her are decent and figure 2 more season then get new. Everone who has come to look at the boat is very impressed and on what a good cleaning does.

Brian
 

Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
Brian's Images - Good Job!

Brian sent me the images - here they are. Excellent job!

I think he deserves some kind of applause for this work....another Ericson hull saved!

:egrin: :egrin: :egrin:

//sse
 

Attachments

  • MA05081_09.jpg
    MA05081_09.jpg
    25.4 KB · Views: 154
  • P3160019.jpg
    P3160019.jpg
    25.1 KB · Views: 119
  • MA05081_08.jpg
    MA05081_08.jpg
    32.2 KB · Views: 172
  • P3160020.jpg
    P3160020.jpg
    38.7 KB · Views: 130

BrianP

Member II
Hey guys thanks, I think a web page is going to be done up on hang loose so all can see the whole start to finish. We are on target for commisioning on may 12th or 13th.
 
Top