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E-38 architect's drawings

vbenn

Member III
Does anyone know where I can get a copy of Bruce King's hull plan for the Ericson 38? I am trying to re-establish the design waterline. Prior to awlgripping the hull 2 months ago, my 38 was stern heavy, probably due to the diesel tank under the aft stateroom, a full lazerette, and O/B motor hanging off the stern rail. We moved the boot strip up ~3" at the stern, moved the batteries under the starboard settee, put 100' of chain in the anchor well, and filled the 47 gal water tank under the v-berth. Now the boat is bow heavy with the top of the boot strip nearly submerged. I left a message at Bruce King's office in Maine - - no reply yet.

Interested in learning if any other 38 owners have similar experience.

Vince Benn
Wild Blue
E-380 - 22
 
Bruce,
I have a 27. It's weight conscious, too. I have an outboard on the back that I cannot move; it's my auxiliary power. But I have the boat on its lines because I have moved weight forward. Not as much as you, though. Is 100 feet of chain necessary? I have a couple of fathoms of stout chain and nylon after that. If you need to carry the chain and can store it near the mast, underneath access to the bilge, do it. Water weighs 8 pounds a gallon. You are carrying almost 400 pounds of water! Dump some of it. You probably don't need that much unless you guys waste it. Experiment. The solution is at hand. It just may take you a while to find it.
Morgan Stinemetz
 

noproblemo2

Member III
I f you check the posts, the son of the founder of ericson just posted within the last couple of weeks, perhaps he can assist you, seems to be a very nice person.:egrin:
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
I'm with Moragn here. I think instead of moving the waterline i would try to get the boat to float on its intended waterline. Looking at your location (PA) I am guessing you sail the Chesapeake. I have an 89' E-38 and my anchor line is 40' chain followed by 5/8" nylon. I had a 3.5 hp outboard on my stern pulpit until last night when I noticed someone stole it:boohoo: I emptied my cockpit locker and stern lockers and got rid of most of the junk that had been sitting there unused. I either tow my inflateable or store it rolled up on cabintop by the mast. My batteries are under the starboard setee. I used to have a 40 gallon water tank on the port side but now have AC. If you still have that tank and the 25 gallon one in the cockpit locker you should have plenty of water capacity and I would try not filling the bow and stern tanks full, maybe just 1/2 unless you are really going to need it. I also rarely keep my fuel tank full as its expensive and I cant use the fuel fast enough. Diesel has a short shelf life and even with treatment can go bad after a while. I normally have about 3/8 to 1/2 tank. In my stern lockers and cockpit locker I keep fenders, lifejackets, a bucket, some dinghy parts, a grill and few extra lines. On a cruise I end up putting trash in the stern locker too. Set up like this my 38 floats above its factory waterline but with a 2 degree starboard list. Probably from the lost watertank and batteries on the starboard side. I plan to enentually move my house battery bank to under the forward seat on the port side just in from of the mast but thats a big job...
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Wow, another interesting E38 issue! My E38 has a custom lead bulb added to the shoal draft keel. It should draw 4' 11" but now draws @ 5' 2" by our best guess figuring. The waterline is right at the bottom of the boot stripe. I am guessing that this is about 3" deeper than it is supposed to be judged by other pictures I have seen of E38's at rest.

Stock configuration is two group 31 batteries under the quarterberth just forward of the fuel tank, a 25 gallon water tank under the starboard settee and I think a 60 gallon water tank under the V berth. If I fill all the water tanks to capacity with a half full fuel tank @ 25gallons she is definitely bow heavy pushing about 1" deeper at the bow with the stern waterline at 3" - 4" below the bottom of the bootstripe.

I had a slight list to starboard with the tanks full as well. Using the forward water tank first corrects the problem quickly. I have increased from 15' of chain to 50' so that pushed the bow down a bit again. I then had a fuel tank problem and in replacing the tank I reconfigured the battery box. Now I carry less fuel but more battery up to 4 group 31's.

The perfect balance appears to be forward tank 1/2 full, starboard tank full, fuel tank 1/2 full, and 4 people in the cockpit. Then she sits perfectly level. Without the bodies she is just slightly bow heavy and I am okay with that. Planning on more house battery in the near future so that will correct some.

BTW, I wouldn't give up the bulb keel mod for anything. From the posts here it makes a shoal draft E38 much less tender. RT
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Ted,
I can't figure out how to post a link to another thread so you can search under "oil in the bilge" my posting on the leaking tank or just go to the 2nd or 3rd page back in Maintenance and you will find it there. I posted pics of the removal process and Ben Warner posted his as well of the replacement, etc. I forgot the camera when I was putting it all back together. Cost for my tank was $630.00 complete with senders, fittings, etc. ready to install from www.lutherswelding.com Great work, marine tanks are something like 80% of their biz? My new tank is 39 gallons down from 56 gallons as it is 10 inches shorter than the original to make room for a bigger house battery bank. Its not a particularly difficult project just one you would prefer to do OFF season not right in the middle while in the water like I had to. Will take final pics at the boat today and post later this weekend. Hope this helps, RT
 

Martin King

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
E 380 waterline

Vince,
My dad retired this year and has closed down his office. I don't know
if they still send drawings out any more- I doubt it. Anyway with
all the stuff you have on her, I don't think the dwl is going to help you
much. The 38 doesn't have much volume in her bow sections to float
heavy loads as you are finding out. You first need to get her floating
in trim-not bow down. Once that is established, then go ahead and
raise the boot top if you need to. As a starting point, I would suggest
you find another 38 with the factory boot top, take careful measurements
and go from there. Merely redrawing the waterline on an out of trim
boat is a band aid and not a cure.

When I owned a 39, I had discussions with my dad about routing the chain
aft and building a locker for it to get the weight out of the bow. I never
did this but it is done all the time on custom boats to solve the problem.

Martin
 

vbenn

Member III
E380 waterline

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think the main culprit is the water tank, so I'll start there, then reduce the chain. We marked the actual waterline with the boat fully loaded and we're bringing the bottom paint up to cover +2". This should keep the awlgrip out of the water under most conditions.

The new A/C weighs 64 lbs and is installed under the v-berth - - I don't believe it contributes that much. As mentioned in another post, the boat usually listed to port due to diesel and center water tanks installed on the port side. Two group 31 batteries were also on the port side. With 4 new group 31's under the starboard settee, the boat is not listing anymore but I have noticed that the cabin sole, salon table, and galley/sink counter are not level. It seems that each week, I find yet another knucklehead problem. Can't believe this was built by PSC!

Vince
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Reagarding the posting of links to threads

Regarding Rob's request on how to post a link to another thread...
I find that i can go to the Thread Tools menu at the top of the thread in question, chose the option of emailing the link URL to someone. Then I use copy-paste to put the link URL into the new message I am composing.

Loren
 
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Terri

Junior Member
Just laughing...

Just filled the bow tank for the first time and sadly surprised to see how far down the bow is and how easy it is to see the rudder.... Of course the pressure water is out at the moment and siphoning from the fill access isn't working...

Laugh with me

Terri
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
What is the tank capacity? Fresh water is said to weigh 8.34# per gallon, so if you have a tank way forward, it certainly could cause a shift to bow-down.

Plus, there is the tare weight of the tank and fittings, as well.
Is there an anchor windlass up there also?

Best,
Loren

ps: our O-34 has the factory "designed-in" (gentle sigh...) port list, and when we replaced the starbord settee plastic 23 gal. water tank with a custom 38 gallon ss tank (approx 70# tare) and fill it, the boat sits Level...) :)
 
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Terri

Junior Member
Tilted boat

oh... I managed to fill all 60 gal (was seeing if that would help diagnose my pressure problem - I now think that's just a water pump issue)... friend is bringing a pump over soon to help with the tank. Yes, windlass and chain too are up there too. 40 gals of fuel in the aft aren't offsetting enough. Like I said, laugh with me...
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
True draft compared with book draft?

Wow, another interesting E38 issue! My E38 has a custom lead bulb added to the shoal draft keel. It should draw 4' 11" but now draws @ 5' 2" by our best guess figuring. The waterline is right at the bottom of the boot stripe. I am guessing that this is about 3" deeper than it is supposed to be judged by other pictures I have seen of E38's at rest.

Well this could be an entire separate thread, but our 38 never came close to resting on her DWL. Though in our case the trim was not a problem, just too much junk. The book draft was also 4'11", but when loaded for cruising she drew 5'2" to 5'3". If I had taken her offshore I would have add another 6" of bottom paint all around to stop growth.

How does everyone else's true draft compare with the book draft?
 

Randy Rutledge

Sustaining Member
almost angry

"galley/sink counter are not level. It seems that each week, I find yet another knucklehead problem
Can't believe this was built by PSC!

Vince"

I don't understand this as a design or construction issue. If I have a gallon of water in my 14' john boat and I move aft the water follows me, if I move forward the water is still under my feet. Is this a design or weight distribution problem?

A large water tank is convenience but not intended to be filled unless needed.

I guess it is owner pride but I take issue to the statement of "can’t believe this is built by PSC" god thank you that you didn’t say Ericson.
 
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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
I don't think this really matters at all, how it sits on the waterline that is. Where the boat sits on its waterline can be highly variable, dependent on water, black water, fuel, stores, passengers, etc. My E38 sits bow down a bit with the forward water tank topped off. So what? I am assuming that when I put 700-800lbs of people in the cockpit it probably flattens it out nicely. Obviously you wouldn't want a huge imbalance and moving the mass to the center and low in the hull will result in the best performance and offshore ride. That said, I load what I need for a trip, I try not to bring things I know I won't need or use. I have always left with full water tanks on anything more than a weekend trip. Why? Because you never know. If you don't like the waterline then either move it or adjust the trim to suit however I don't see how a minor imbalance is the death knell. Load 'em, sail 'em and enjoy 'em! RT
 

Shaggy

Member II
FWIW -

My E38 floats level on her beam, and slightly bow down with all water and diesel tanks full and no peeps on board.

I do not have a lot of extraneous gear, minimal anchor chain and no outboard on the rail.

I believe the owner's manual mentions emptying the V-berth tank for better performance sailing.

Good luck balancing your steed!
 

vbenn

Member III
Thanks for all the comments.

After the yard had 3 attempts to correct the water line, I had them sand off the boot stripe. One reason the boat "appeared" bow heavy was because the boot stripe dipped forward and was raised aft, ie, S-shaped. After sanding, I went overboard and physically marked the waterline with a grease pencil. A new painting contractor took over from there. Root cause of all this nonsense was my own stupidity in choosing the lowest bid for the paint job.

Vince Benn
Wild Blue
 
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