E26-2 : stuffing box drip

[Alan Gomes]

My shaft is 3/4” (insert Bevis laugh here), and the nut on the packing gland is 1 7/8”.

Got it.

Well, the shaft diameter is no guarantee about the other dimensions of the packing gland--though it does seem that the other E26's with which I'm familiar have used 1/8" packing. But if your box took 1/8" and you tried to fit in 1/4", you would have had a heck of a time getting it in, which you say you didn't. Conversely, if your box truly takes 1/4", then 1/8" packing should be floppy loose in there and it would leak like a sieve.

Again, if your packing went in with some but not significant resistance, and the packing nut is running cool, I wouldn't worry about it.

How does it seem to be working for you?

 

[NW26]

I’m still on the hard for 2 more weeks, so I’ll have to wait and see how it works out. YouTube university showed 2 different methods of packing the seal into the nut - 1) basically just pack it in with a blunt object, staggering the ends then thread the nut on and do a preliminary adjustment. Or 2) put a piece of packing in the nut, then run the nut down to drive the packing in. Repeat the process for the other 2 pieces. Is there a preferred process?
I realize I’m making a science project out of this - I really appreciate the input.

 

[acubria]

Well, I'm not sure we're quite saying the same thing regarding the number of rings, Dave. What I'm saying is that if 2 rings work, then I see nothing wrong with it. But if it doesn't work (i.e., to much water coming in) and can't be adjusted adequately, then pop in a third ring. Or, if Arturo wants, he could put in the third ring now.

As for opening it up with the boat in the water: If Arturo has an electric bilge pump, it will keep up with the flow easily. My pump is a really small one, and it has no problem. I've only changed and adjusted the packing with the boat in the water.

Am I the only person here without an electric bilge pump? I might start a new thread on this for e-26 only. The bilge in my boat is so shallow that I have not been able to find a pump that fits in there.... not even the Rule low profile fits in my boat...

 

[Christian Williams]

You might not need one, and there's nothing more failsafe than a dinghy pump and a bucket.

But recall that an electric diaphragm pump puts only the intake hose into the bilge, and the pump body can be elsewhere. Which solves the "fit" problem. Submersible pumps are OK, but they need to fit the need and if they don't, they don't.

 

[Loren Beach]

As Christian points out, you can remote mount a Jabsco #37202 pump, several feet from the intake. Our pump intakes are very low in the bilge, and the pump stays dry.

 

[Roger Janeway]

I don't have an electric bilge pump. The longest I've left the boat without checking the bilge is 2 months, during the initial Covid lockdown in 2020. So far, most of the water in my bilge comes from exchanging the knotmeter paddlewheel sensor with the dummy plug.

 

[KS Dave]

So far, most of the water in my bilge comes from exchanging the knotmeter paddlewheel sensor with the dummy plug.

Roger fails to mention he has a pristine specimen of an E26.

My pump fits (and is least in the way) in the forward-most bilge compartment with the cover off. My boat didn't come with covers over the center holes on any compartment, so really I haven't known what I'm missing. That being said, my long-term plan is for a diaphragm pump mounted aft somewhere and a strum in that forward compartment so I can put a lid on it.

 

[acubria]

has anyone cut open the "fake" bilge in an e-26? I always wonder what is under there and I suppose that would be a better place for a pump?Luckily my e-26 is really dry and I rarely see much water inside. My idea of installing a pump is more thinking of emergencies.

 

[Christian Williams]

It is worth thinking through what emergency a typical electric bilge pump can handle other than rain water. I am more interested in the health of the big manual Whale diaphragm pump, which can really slow down the process of sinking--and which on some old boats no longer works. Brittle hose, shot diaphragm, lost handle. Worth a check. Last line of defense.

 

[Pete the Cat]

We seem to have two threads going here. One is about stuffing box packing and the other other about bilge pumps.
I am not going to redirect that, as I know folks get nervous about stuffing box work and bilge pump effectiveness becomes a question. I agree with Christian that no one should think that any electric bilge pump is going to rescue you from a major, sudden leak of some kind. On the other hand, I am surprised that Ericson would sell a keel boat without an automatic electric bilge pump of some kind. My guess is that more boats are sunk by slow leaks than catastrophic ones. And, yes, an electric pump will not insure you won't sink--it is no substitute for paying attention to water ingress. I thnk there is a reason for the three way bilge pump switches that is worth a discussion here: they have a purpose--the ones with "auto"/ off/ manual. If you just wire an automatic pump directly to a battery (with a fuse) you might just delay the inevitable leak sinking your boat when the battery goes dead from pumping--the switch gives you an opportunity to disable the automatic pump while you are present to note any leaks. It also gives you the opportunity to test whether the pump is still working when you switch to manual. It certainly will not eliminate the danger of flooding from a leak, but I believe having a pump on this kind of switch is basic safety for any keel boat left unattended. I always put a buzzer on the "automatic" side of the switch so that I know when the pump is energized. Sometimes leaks are exacerbated by motoring or just sailing and it seems prudent to be alerted to a problem before it covers the floorboards. Just one opinion of the bilge pump matter. I am sure others will differ.
On shaft packing: I am a fan of the Syntec clay dripless product (with GFO packing material if you can find it) and have been using it for more than 20 years on my boats. One needs to follow the directions carefully and it requires a break in process that means you need to pay attention and gradually tighten the packing nuts for the first several hours--which explains why boatyards do not generally sell the stuff--they would rather send you out with a mechanical device that won't leak initially. But the reward for the clay process is a dry bilge and many years of drip free issues at the stuffing box without the fear of the catastrophic failure of the bellows--as I once experienced on a delivery many miles offshore. i came to believe that the bellows type shaft seals are dangerous for offshore work because they cannot generally be fixed without hauling the boat and can spray salt water all around the engine (don't ask) in addition to leaking substantially before one is aware of the problem. I know lots of folks have them, and boatyards love to install them and they are probably OK if you replace the bellows and service them on the schedule the manufacturer recommends. I just think they present a unique danger in offshore situations.
Just one opinion FWIW.

 

[Loren Beach]

It is worth thinking through what emergency a typical electric bilge pump can handle other than rain water. I am more interested in the health of the big manual Whale diaphragm pump, which can really slow down the process of sinking--and which on some old boats no longer works. Brittle hose, shot diaphragm, lost handle. Worth a check. Last line of defense.

Worth having this advice posted up, in bold print.

I have met a lot of owners over the years who do not understand the possible need for this manual pump.
Just one example was a 20 year old Ben. First 30 that somehow took in enough water to cover the sole, in our marina. Turned out it was an undiscovered slow leak -owner out of town-, but until we could get the big gas pump over to it, we tried using the cockpit mounted pump and quickly discovered that it had a shot diaphragm. On that "racing-oriented" model the builder had, like all of the 80's Ericson's, equipped it with a Category One manual pump. But a succession of clueless owners had ignored their preventative maintenance duties. Even 20 years can be a long time for rubber, vinyl, and fabric parts.

FWIW, our '88 EY-built boat has the standard large manual pump, plus two installed OEM electric diaphragm pumps. Our boat has quite a lot of $$ and thought dedicated to dewatering, and we liked that when we bought it, and still do.

 

[Alan Gomes]

But the reward for the clay process is a dry bilge and many years of drip free issues at the stuffing box without the fear of the catastrophic failure of the bellows--as I once experienced on a delivery many miles offshore. i came to believe that the bellows type shaft seals are dangerous for offshore work because they cannot generally be fixed without hauling the boat and can spray salt water all around the engine (don't ask) in addition to leaking substantially before one is aware of the problem.

Granting that the failure you experienced offshore was catastrophic, I'm curious how you addressed it.

Personally, I've been content with the old school stuffing box with the GoreTex GFO packing. Pretty much bullet proof.

 

[Kenneth K]

Granting that the failure you experienced offshore was catastrophic, I'm curious how you addressed it.

LOL. Actually, I had a catastrophic PSS bellows failure in 2020. Fortunately, it was catastrophic only for the bellows (a major rupture) but not for the boat.

A single, automatic Rule submersible pump could not keep up with the initial leak. Turning on a second, manual Rule pump overcame the ingress, buying me time to wrap the blown bellows with trash bags and plastic wrap.

A blown PSS bellows can be wrapped/plugged/ sealed in various ways, almost all of which leave the prop shaft immobilized. It's still a lesser long-term problem at sea than losing your engine. You have no propulsion, but you can still generate electricity.

A blown bellows won't sink your boat unless you have the additional failures of lack-of-planning and bilge pump issues.

BTW, the cause of my bellows failure was a stray wire getting wrapped around the rotating prop shaft (ie, operator inattention to a hazardous loose wire in the engine compartment).

 

[acubria]

Lots of wisdom here! Thank all for the great info and sorry for turning this stuffing box forum into a bilge pump one. Both themes very connected, but maybe better in two separate threads.