E27 considering switching from inboard to outboard

[Hawaii Sailor]

Yesterday I sucked up a random line that was floating in the marina. It wrapped around my shaft and got pulled into the cutlass bearing, which ended up destroying the inner sleeve. And that bearing was only replaced three years ago.

The starter is acting up again and probably needs a new one. So now I’m looking at needing to replace the cutlass bearing, shaft seal, and starter—at a minimum. I’m sure other issues will pop up once I dig in. The engine is in decent condition otherwise. It's a 93 Yanmar 23gm20f. I've had it for 3 years and have done a lot of maintenance, mostly with pricey diesel mechanics. They all say "she's a good little engine" but I keep doing a lot of work on it. I've had the control panel replaced, exhaust manifold, diesel tank replaced, thermostat, and routine maintenance like belts, filters, and more. Is this old engine just going to give me more problems or would an OB be the easier solution in the long run?

At this point, I’m seriously considering saying screw it and switching to an outboard. The Yanmar diesel can definitely be repaired, but I’m wondering if an OB might be cheaper and simpler long-term.

I'll mostly be coast sailing, with occasional open seas. I'm in Hawaii, so I would be going to between islands once a year, maybe. The OB with a 25" long shaft seems like a simple solution.

Do you have any thoughts or suggestions? It would be sad to let go the inboard setup. But if more problems come up, at some point I need to stop pouring money into the old inboard.

 

[windblown]

It is, of course, your call.
It sounds like you’ve done some of the long-term major maintenance on your diesel (Exhaust manifold, tank replacement, etc.), and it sounds like more than one mechanic thinks it’s in reasonably good shape (not that mechanics are reliable sooth sayers).
I like the reliability of a diesel inboard, though it took me a few years to trust it. I grew up with power boats, and it seemed like we were always having engine trouble at the worst times (I.e. dragging anchor toward a rocky shore on an incoming tide, etc.). We had trouble with outboards, I/Os, and gas inboards. I think we had our Ericson with its Universal diesel M25 for several years before I finally stopped holding my breath every time I started the engine. But now I trust it will start, and if, on a very rare occasion, it doesn’t, I can easily troubleshoot the problem and get it going.
It doesn’t sound like you‘ll need to winterize, but OBs do require regular maintenance, and can be finicky about their fuel and oil.
The other advantage of a diesel is the savings on fuel. We burn less than half a gallon of diesel an hour at cruising speed. I think a 20 hp outboard burns more like to 2 gallons an hour. Do you use your alternator to charge your house batteries?
Another disadvantage of the OB, in my book, is the inconvenient storage of a more flammable fuel And fumes.
A new OB will have an upfront cost, plus the added cost of installing the new engine mount, and then getting used to the handling difference of the boat.
It may come down to your personal preference.

 

[Loren Beach]

A little searching here will turn up prior related threads, like this one: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/outboard-suggestions.20780/
Note that only a few of the early E-27's had a reinforced transom cut out specifically designed and constructed (by EY) to support an OB engine.
Adding a bracket will require inside upgrades for strength. Also, an OB on a bracket will be unable to keep the prop in the water in a short chop.

 

[gabriel]

Personally for me I would keep the diesel as I like diesel engines and the convenience of an inboard (not having to reach over the transom to steer or lift out of water), but the reality is that a brand new outboard would give you exactly the trouble free service and economy you seek.

The new generation of fuel injected outboards virtually eliminates stale fuel problems and they can be had as small as 8hp.


Which island are you from? I have family in Hilo.

***edit I see you’re from Oahu!

 

[bigd14]

I say keep the diesel. Trying to wrangle an outboard on a bracket is challenging. Installing the bracket may require reinforcing the transom. Maneuvering will be much more difficult with no prop wash on the rudder (except in reverse then it rips the tiller out of your hand and you lose control anyway). If you have the stern cutout it would be much easier to mount and operate an outboard but even then it is still more difficult than an inboard (I had the stern cutout setup on my E27).

 

[Christian Williams]

I've had it for 3 years and have done a lot of maintenance, mostly with pricey diesel mechanics.

The only economical answer is to do the work yourself. Major issues are rare, maintenance is continuous, but if the engine is in currently good shape there's no reason to anticipate more than maintenance ahead.

The starter can be rebuilt by any alternator shop. If the transmission fails, well, that's expensive, maybe a couple of grand by a boatyard. Everything else is skinned knuckles and the price of tools and study time. Consider that your engine is worth 10-12K in replacement value.

So keep it if at all possible. A diesel gives a 27-footer sales value, and a dead one in the bilge detracts big time.

if you do switch to outboard just to get out of the harbor, consider the new electrics, which are very light. They will set you back $2500, for a very limited range.

 

[nukey99]

I think Christian's advice is spot on. I do as much work on our boat as I can with my own hands, and I just fixed a problem faucet in our diesel pusher RV for $20 in parts, $10 in tools and 1 hour on the internet. Take it to the shop and they will tell you that's a quick 1k. Being in the PNW with dodgy winds, we will probably motor sail for a lot of our trips, I'm hoping our little Westerbeke/universal M30 lasts for ever and see no reason that it shouldn't.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

 

[Dave G.]

No question...diesel !

 

[Waayout]

I think it's a logical consideration given where you are. After dealing with diesel bug, using a giant hole saw to cut a wema hole in my tank (showered with shredded aluminum), a failed impeller pump that in turn showered the engine with salt water, and belt dust from misaligned belts I'm hopefully in the maintenance zone. I agree with Christian and also want to highlight Loren's comments about chop. I grew up sailing on a Pearson 26 on Lake Erie, it had a transom designed for an outboard. Every time a squall came through (50% of summer afternoons) I can hear it wailing, in then out of the water, Dad on the tiller, boat floundering as I hoped we'd get in soon and safe. The benefit of having a shaft driven engine on a boat larger than 25' is hard to overstate, just when you need auxiliary you'll likely have it. I love my 2 stroke yamaha 8 on the dinghy but even that overheated (my fault, clogged cooling fitting) on Catalina a few weeks ago when snorkeling..................engines!!!! Whatever you decide, you can make it work, I fall into the 'keep it diesel' camp.

 

[Loren Beach]

I fall into the 'keep it diesel' camp.

To buttress this comment, and also Christian's DIY encouragement, I have found that the more I learn and do on my boat, the better (and much more controlled) the outcome --when I do have to hire a pro. It's not so much that that mechanic is trying cheat me as that the more completely I can explain the problem the faster he/she can solve it. This saves frustration (theirs and mine) and money (mine).

So many mechanical (vehicle or boat) problems fall into the humorous customer interactions that "Click n Clack the Tappet Brothers" used to laugh about on their radio show. This was where the customer would try to make noises like the sound of his engine problem! I find that this is Real, albeit requiring me to laugh at myself... again and again...

 

[Christian Williams]

Also, mechanics respond to a complaint. It is asking a lot for them to make a diagnosis based on anything intermittent. 'Sometimes I lose RPMS', 'sometimes slow to start,' 'engine running hot,' 'transmission sometimes slips,' 'mystery water in the bilge," and so on.

In my world that's the way most problems present, and sometimes all a mechanic can do is start changing things--new wiring, new components.

A mechanic looks at a 30-year-old Racor and knows it's past its life, and so too all the hoses on the boat, and the panel, and have the injectors been tested lately? and so on. Whereas what we want is to know what's going on, not an appointment Tuesday at 10 a.m. and then an estimate to approve.

What works better, for me at least, is monitoring and patience. Those are two things no mechanic can provide and are often the keys to successful troubleshooting.

An example was fuel dripping down my engine onto the absorbent pad in the pan. I just could not find the source. I doubt a mechanic could have, either, as sometimes it was there, and sometimes not. In the end, I discovered a pinhole leak in a rubber fuel transfer tube between injectors, which made an invisible thin spray that projected onto engine wiring and then made its way back under the engine. It took months of taping napkins here and there to finally reveal the spray pattern. Not something a mechanic could see at a glance,

I conclude that when puzzled, do nothing. For which the fancy word is, monitor.

I'm not against diesel mechanics, or against spending money. I have just found that monitoring and skepticism is the key to diagnosis.