E27 Mainsail track insert

[stuartm80127]

I am looking for feedback/suggestions on installing a mainsail track into the bolt groove in my teardrop shaped mast and then attaching the sail to the track. Examples are Tides Marine, Antal, Harkin... On my existing setup my mainsail uses 1/2" slugs and works great until I have to reef when the slides can put lots of pressure on my custom aluminum sailgates and literally pop out along with lots of sail. I keep the boat on a trailer and mast un-stepped so installation should be quite simple next spring. Of concern to me is that many systems that install into a bolt groove seem to rely upon a flat surface area near the opening of the groove. The teardrop style mast on most E27's doesn't afford much surface area at the aft part of the mast. Has this been an issue for anyone?

Much thanks in advance.

Stuart

 

[Guy Stevens]

The Tides Marine stuff rocks!

We have used it on a lot of mast sections and have not had any issues at all.. Give them a call tell them what boat you have, and they have probably already had it installed on the same mast section.

It is the cheapest, and in most cases also the best system. We have installed it on small day sailors up to 60+ footers. It works like magic!

Guy

 

[stuartm80127]

Thank you very much Guy.

 

[Mindscape]

Tides Marine

I spoke with a guy that had installed the Tides Marine system on a 32, did it himself and had nothing but good things to say. I'm thinking about it for my 32-3. Seth has also recomended this system in the past.

 

[Andrew Means]

What does one of these systems run for an E27? We're having a very similar issue with our slugs, they get caught at the aluminum sailgates, so it's nearly impossible to raise the main single-handed, and I want to be able to do more single-handed sailing...

 

[toddbrsd]

Try Sail Kote

Andrew,

Have you tried Sail Kote yet? I was having the same issue as you on my E-27. I only sprayed on the plastic slugs. That alone made an improved difference. It is recommended that you spray some of the Sail Kote on the inside of the track itself, which requires either going up the mast or drenching a piece of cloth or something and hoisting it up the track. I haven't gotten that far. It is worth trying out before you spend big bucks on something else.

 

[Andrew Means]

The main issue is that the sail gate allows the slugs to come outward slightly more than the track, so during the transition from the gate back to the track they get angled and jammed. Other than that one trouble spot they generally don't bind too bad. I've thought about maybe just replacing the slugs with something longer (ours are about an inch and a quarter long) but I'm not positive that would be the best option...

 

[AleksT]

What about putting a screw into the track to keep the slugs above the gate? You may have to adjust your reefing system a bit. Also you may be able to rework the custom gate you have, adding some thickness to it so the slides slide evenly.

Other than that the tides system works great. You will have to have your sailmaker replace you existing slides with the tides slides. That should not cost a lot but keep it in mind when you looking at prices.

 

[Mark F]

Hi Andrew,

I had the same trouble with an E23. The remedy was to file the transition from gate to channel. As I remember it was hard to get the file too far inside the track, had to make short strokes. It worked great. A Dremel might work also.

 

[Andrew Means]

What about putting a screw into the track to keep the slugs above the gate? You may have to adjust your reefing system a bit. Also you may be able to rework the custom gate you have, adding some thickness to it so the slides slide evenly.

Other than that the tides system works great. You will have to have your sailmaker replace you existing slides with the tides slides. That should not cost a lot but keep it in mind when you looking at prices.

The gate is actually about 6-8" above the boom, so the sail would get stacked pretty high above the boom and would be awkward, I think.

I tried fairing out the gate plates with some aluminum epoxy compound, but it didn't seem to work all that well, although I kind of half-assed the job, if I'm honest with myself, and I don't really trust that stuff, it seems like it never gets as hard as it should (even though I thoroughly mix it)... Maybe I'll see if somebody can make me a custom gate - what do you guys use? Is there a solution somewhere on the market? I can't be the only person to have this problem!

 

[Loren Beach]

Something to consider

No personal experience with the product, but found this link at another sailing site.
http://www.mastgates.com/

Loren

 

[Andrew Means]

Yeah, we've got something similar (except they're screwed on); the thing is, even with that solution the slugs are loose enough in the section where the gate is that they can get at an angle and bind as they go up the mast. I think the best option is to probably get a different thickness of gate plate or something... A friend of mine has a router; I wonder if we might be able to rout out something out of aluminum?

 

[steven]

After over a year or so of research, including pricing, I put a Tides Marine Strong Track on my main a few yrs ago. Very happy with it. It is a great solution, especially for lowering the sail. Let go the halyard and the sail drops like a stone. Makes reefing much easier too.

I put a screw "stop" into the mast track above the gate. The bottom slug never gets above the gate. Second from bottom, I took out of the track and just let it dangle. The others seat nicely on the screw.

Works very well except the stack is uncomfortably high.


--Steve

 

[Andrew Means]

How much did that Tides Marine Strong Track system run you, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[steven]

in 2006, purchased retail from a well known loft:

materials 37' of track and slugs $925; sewing the slugs onto the sail $150; installation on the boat, $250.

Also - suggest you estimate the size of the stack to be sure your existing sail cover will fit.

By the way. I have a fully battened main. I am not sure if that is important to performance of the system.

 

[C Masone]

What's the problem?

I spoke with a guy that had installed the Tides Marine system on a 32, did it himself and had nothing but good things to say. I'm thinking about it for my 32-3. Seth has also recomended this system in the past.

I have an E32-3 with internal slides, and the main goes up and down just fine, what is the problem you are trying to solve?

 

[Walter Pearson]

I don't know if the Tides Marine system is worth the investment, but my Scotch heritage would make me want to first make an attempt to make or buy a stronger gate. I had all those issues - and more - on the original set-up on my E27. It had stops above and below the opening and hoisting, dropping, and reefing all were cumbersome - and that topping lift attached to the backstay was downright dangerous. Long before the internet and the ability to find unlimited sources to spend boat bucks, I made my own plates to cover the opening. I used stainless plate and silver brazed 3/16 rod (with angled ends) to the underside which matched up well with the mast extrusion and provides a smooth transition for the slides. The stiffness of the stainless material plus the rod plus the curvature to match the mast gives it plenty of strength. More details available if you're interested.

 

[Seth]

Tides Marine System is great, but...............

It has nothing to do with the issue you describe. The reason for converting to a Tides or similar system is to reduce the friction going up and down so the main goes up and down (this being the more important) smoothly.

The problem you describe when reefing will be exactly the same with the Tides system (except you can probably get it adjusted so there is no gate).

My point is that if this is your main complaint you just need to have a jackline installed on your mainsail. I have several posts about this over the years, but the bottom line is this will allow you to reef the main and secure the (new) tack without pulling on the slides at the wrong angle. This should cost less than 100 bucks and completely fix the problem you described. Even if you do get the new track you should have the jackline installed anyway (it is a function of where the bottom of the track ends and how high above the tack fitting it is), so do it first and see how it goes.

Cheers,

S

 

[Andrew Means]

I don't know if the Tides Marine system is worth the investment, but my Scotch heritage would make me want to first make an attempt to make or buy a stronger gate. I had all those issues - and more - on the original set-up on my E27. It had stops above and below the opening and hoisting, dropping, and reefing all were cumbersome - and that topping lift attached to the backstay was downright dangerous. Long before the internet and the ability to find unlimited sources to spend boat bucks, I made my own plates to cover the opening. I used stainless plate and silver brazed 3/16 rod (with angled ends) to the underside which matched up well with the mast extrusion and provides a smooth transition for the slides. The stiffness of the stainless material plus the rod plus the curvature to match the mast gives it plenty of strength. More details available if you're interested.

Very interested - I don't think I need a whole new system, just a smooth transition from the gate to the track. Do you have pictures of the ones you made? Measurements?

I hear you about the topping lift on the backstay - I was out on Lake Union last night and had to put a reef in the main and it wasn't, shall we say, comfortable to hold the boom up while tensioning the clew reefing line, and the wind was too much on our beam to attach the topping lift from the backstay. My boat is rigged with the topping lift for the Spinnaker running aft to the cockpit, but I think I'm going to repurpose that spot to be a topping lift and add a block at the aft of the mast (there's a space for one, I think). As the boat doesn't even have a spinnaker at this point I think the topping lift will certainly get more use. Is that what you did?

I'm Scots Irish, BTW

 

[Andrew Means]

No personal experience with the product, but found this link at another sailing site.
http://www.mastgates.com/

Loren

I've got an email into them to see if they've done anything for an E27 - I was skeptical of the design but now that I think about it, it might work fine...