E29 Mack Sails Miter Cut Genoa

[dfresh808]

Does anyone have any thoughts, experience, or recomendations?
I am shopping for a new 150% genoa. After getting 6 quotes from sail lofts, Mack Sails prepared the best quote... does anyone out there have experience with them and more specifically the "miter cut" genoa? His quote was for 5.77 oz challange marblehead fabric, mitercut, with luff foam and sunbrella UV cover was about $600 less than the big lofts. (The big lofts all quoted me 6.63 dacron, crosscut ) I sure like the theory behind the miter cut, but was curious what experience others have had. Any suggestions or insight appreciated. This sail will be my primary headsail, weekly club racing, as well as coastal cruising.
Will this sail last longer and perform better than a crosscut?
1976 E29 hull #485 :unsure:

 

[jkenan]

I have a '77 E29, and bought a 135% Mitre cut genoa on Challenger cloth from Mack Sails last year. I love it, and the boat's performance is much better than before - She's faster, point's higher, and can sail in heavier air before needing to reef. I would definitely recommend them based on their product and customer service (I dealt with Travis, who was great), but I did have some issues:

1) After giving exacting details of the luff measurement, including providing photos of the measuring tape at the roller furling tack (with shackle) clearly showing 35' 5", they sent me a sail with a luff of 39', which needed to be sent back and recut. They addressed the issue appropriately and at no additional cost to me, but it was rather frustrating after going into such detail to communicate measurements, and I still wonder if recutting a brand new sail compromises it somehow.

2) I also ordered an Asymetrical Spinnaker (I've been wanting one for a while, and was compelled by 10% off the whole order if two or more sails are bought), and gave them my color scheme. In the bottom section, two of the colors were reversed. I actually didn't even notice it at first, until I looked at a photo of it flying. I contacted Travis about afterwards because I wanted him to be aware, but did not ask him to fix it since I had already used the sail many times. He appreciated my attitude, and said he 'owed me one' (I'll take him up on that with a discount on a new mainsail when I can afford it).

Despite those two issues, I came away from the experience with a feeling they offer a solid product at a good price, and stand behind their work. I will do business with them again.

Good luck.

 

[Morgan Stinemetz]

Mack's mistakes

I believe that people at Mack were not paying attention to what they were doing in the work involving your sails. For what happened to happen in two cases on the same order is way out of line. I had a sailmaker one time who made the foot on my main two feet longer than he should have. Why? He never measured the damn sail. He didn't think he had to. You can bet your last dollar that he never saw me again after that. I gave him the sail back, too. It puzzles me that most of us have boats that are as valuable as what I once paid for my first house and yet we take pot luck on what drives the boat, the sails. It's like the guys at Ferrari saying, "Cushman and Briggs & Stratton are having a sale on engines this week, and we may be able to save some real money."

 

[Randy Rutledge]

You might call Joe Waters at waters sails. He is very good and you will learn more about sails by talking to him than you ever thought possible. He will talk your ear off but that is good, he wants to know everything about your sailing conditions, crew, boat and maybe the color of your dog. When he gets through he knows what you want and will make you a sail that fits your needs. His prices are reasonable and the product is great. I have his sails on my Mirage 236 race boat and when the sails are replaced on the E-29 they will be from Waters.
http://www.waterssails.net/

 

[Seth]

Mitre cut thoughts

This may have been posted in the wrong thread, so here it is again:

"Mitre Cut sails
This is not meant to denigrate the guys at Mack Sails in any way. They are competent and clearly have integrity. I also think the Mitre Cut sails can work just fine, BUT-there is a reason they are the only ones pushing this. This is very old technology which evolved as a way to deal with sail fabrics which were only strong in one direction (old cotton fabrics). The advent of modern fabrics with multi-directional threads has eliminated the need for this type of construction. Provided the sailmaker chooses the right fabric, you will get a good crosscut, bi-radial or tri-radial sail. The tri-radial (and of course newer "string sails") are the ultimate in aligning the strongest threads in the fabric with the load paths, and all other designs are a slight step down (but adequate for most cruising applications).

My feeling is that this is a bit of a gimmick. It is certainly not as effective as a tri-radial, but can produce a perfectly good sail if the right fabric is used.

I am not saying not to buy one, but I am saying that if this were really the answer to sailmaking, you would see the major sailmakers (who have much bigger resources for sail design and cloth development) doing it. None of them are, so just keep it in mind. That said, if you are getting good service and pricing from Mack, you should stay with them!
Happy Trails!"

S

 

[thomthod]

dfresh808

I will say this much regarding the 150. I have an E29 also with roller furling and it came with a 150. It is just way too much sail in light med and heavy. I recently purchased a mylar 130 and the boat sails like it should cause I am sailing to the water line which is only 22 feet. My Morgan 27 had 25 feet of waterline and I could get away with putting up a 155 and going like stink. When I tested the boat with the 130 I never got over powered. Took my hands off the wheel and she was very balanced!

Bottom line you may want to look at something between a 130 and 140. Ask around and get some feed back.


Regards


Thom

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Thom
Are you saying you are proud of 6 knots on your E29 (22' waterline +<6)? I expect 7 or more in good wind on my E29T with the 155 and full main in up to 18 knots of wind. It is fun to drive at that but managable with a good main tender.

 

[thomthod]

Randy,


All I know is when I have that 150 up even in 10 knots of wind I am all over the place and constantly fighting the wheel. The 135 mylar lets the boat be very balanced in a straight line and moves very nicely thru the water. Hence I am sailing to the water line.



T

 

[mherrcat]

Thom,

Out of curiosity, can you say what the measurements are on the 150 you have for the E29? I am wondering if it would fit on my E30+.

The 30+ is a fractional rig, but the mast is taller...just at thought.

 

[thomthod]

mherrcat


I know it has a luff of about 33' 4", and its thicker than a #6 luff.


Thom

 

[Seth]

150% at 10 knots

Just a thought, but if you are seeing such a dramatic difference between the 150 and 135 in 10 knots of breeze I think the issue has more to do with the condition of thebigger sail (leech hooked, draft blown aft,etc.) and how it is set (halyard tension, sheet position, trim). Under normal conditions of boat balance (weight, weight placement, etc.) a 150 is not unreasonable at 10 knots true (although this is 15-15 apparent going upwind)-it might be getting a bit much, but a 15% drop in headsail size would not be a night and day difference by itself.

Also, are you getting the main flat enough as the brreze comes on? Adjust (add) halyard, outhaul and cunningham and ease the sheet just a bit and the boat will really settle down.

 

[tyrguy]

Roller and new head sail

I am looking at adding roller furling and going with a 145%, any input on which furler people have I'm considering CDI. I have a 135 now and it doesn't seem to have enough in the general conditions for us.

 

[Seth]

135% to 145%

Don't look for anything dramatic with a 10% LP increase. If you are really starving for performance in light air you need to look at a minimum of 155%, but this has its' issues as well. You might want to consider a Code 0 on a furler for light air and reaching, and stay with the 135 for bigger days/upwind..
Cheers,
S