E30+ Outboard T-Track width | Want to add a track-attached cleats

[AdventurousAnton]

Hi All,

I'm bedeviled by the fact that Barton Barton Marine Nylon Sliding Cleats only attach to 1-in T-Tracks, but both my inboard and outboard rail tracks looks to be 1.5 inches wide when I measure them. Is this typical, and if so, are there any T-Track Sliding Cleats that will work or you recommend? The main reason is Andiamo! doesn't have amidship cleats, and docking on our single-sided slip would be easier with two of these bad boys instead of me putting holes in the deck.

 

[bigd14]

Likely 1.25 inch track but measure carefully. Garhauer makes them as does Schaeffer. I have a Schaeffer and it works fine, but I am not sure I would trust it to hold the boat under extreme conditions despite its 4,500 pound rating. The pin is simply held in by a spring and it rattles around sometimes and doesn't feel very secure. I used to use it docking single handed but after several misses of the dock cleat and attendant panic I gave it up in favor of using two spare dock lines- one running aft from the bow cleat with a loop amidships and the other running forward from the aft cleat to and through the mid ship loop in the bow line. Now I can just stop the boat near the dock and step off with the aft line end in hand which captures the bow line loop and then I have a "bridle" where I can control both the bow and the stern at once. Works OK with the 30+ which can still be manuevered by hand relatively easily.

The Garhauer unit is more secure with a screw down pin (I had one on a previous boat), but the Schaeffer is more elegant and low profile (and $$$).

Midship Cleats | Garhauer

www.garhauermarine.com

Mid-Rail Cleats | West Marine

Check out our Mid-Rail Cleats and more from West Marine!

www.westmarine.com

 

[AdventurousAnton]

Ah yes, I've seen those models, and bookmarked them. I'm doing the same as you, with 1/2-inch spring lines running for and aft with two loops and enough room to hang over and snag the cleats. It's inelegant, but works. Also, a reinforced heavy-duty boat hook pole as a backup to my backups.

 

[Loren Beach]

CSJ #48-510 TOE RAIL FOLDING CLEAT - C. Sherman Johnson Co., Inc.

The toe rail folding cleat makes a perfect movable, mid-ship cleat for spring lines, etc. This cleat is mountable on all aluminum toe rails. The rail is protected by a silicon rubber pad for rattle free installation. The cleat folds out of the way when not in use, and the husky 3/8” dia. cleat...

csjohnson.com

We have one of these folding cleats on each side of our boat and use them all the time. CSJ used to sell a T-track version, and perhaps you could contact them to see if they have any left... with dust on the packaging.

 

[Nick J]

I just had to return two of the Schaefer cleats. They look like a great solution, but they didn't fit on my track. The screw heads on my track are very slightly proud of the top face of the track and both cleats had a slight curve in the surface that mates with the top of the track (verified with a straight edge). Rebedding the track to recess all the screws seems like overkill and grinding the new cleats isn't something I want to do given their cost, so I just returned them.

 

[Christian Williams]

My tracks are countersunk, with flathead bolts. Same year construction. I don't know what brand these cleats are but they're handsome and adequate for light use (held only by one pin into corresponding track hole).

 

[Nick J]

My tracks are countersunk, with flathead bolts. Same year construction. I don't know what brand these cleats are but they're handsome and adequate for light use (held only by one pin into corresponding track hole).

View attachment 51109

Yup, that's one of the Schaefer cleats. They really are nice. Unlike all the other cleats on the market, the pin goes through one of the legs instead of taking up the middle so you can loop a line through the center. My '84 track must have been installed on a Friday. The flathead screws aren't off by much, but it's enough to inhibit the installation of the cleat. All my other Schaefer track mounted hardware fits OK though.

 

[Loren Beach]

The flathead screws aren't off by much, but it's enough to inhibit the installation of the cleat.

That's Unfortunate.
I had that same problem with a few of the flathead bolts on T tracks on our prior boat. I ended up using a wheel on my Dremel tool to verrrrrry slightly reduce the length of the pin, Just enough so it would clear, This was on a headsail car block.
I wonder if sometimes there is a mismatch between the countersunk holes on the production track and the underside of the flathead bolt. It would only take a thou or two on either side to cause the problem. And the majority of pins on sliders might never encounter this. I did worry a little bit about this when we installed new T track in 2021, and we sighted down the track with the bolts in place during the 'dry fit' phase.

 

[AdventurousAnton]

I greatly appreciate your input and recommendations! I decided to go with the Garhauer Midship Cleat MSC-2, which fits 1-1/4″ t-track and is returnable within 30 days if I don't like it.

This is what my rodeo setup currently looks like with fore/aft attachments and two big "loops" between the stantions:


Pay no attention to the dirt topside...notice the big deck brush up there. I cleaned the boat up right after this photo was taken.

 

[Christian Williams]

The brush draws attention to the pole. One of my greatest accomplishments in life was to hang that from the stanchions to clear the deck for feet. Mine hangs on the outside, which also allows ankle room. I suppose this is less critical if you don't have big feet.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

The Schaefer is almost certainly cast which could account for the warpage. The difference in thickness between the 'legs' and the base would mean different cooling rates resulting in different shrink rates. As complex as the shape is, it could be lost-wax cast which would allow an additional opportunity for warping, same dynamic as the wax cools. If they are cast, different molten steel, wax, and mold temperatures during production could mean that some would be more warped than others. The company really should machine a little afterwards. But they're already expensive.

The Schaefers sure are pretty. Our boat came with one and a corroded but functional aluminum cleat on the other side. The funky one bugs me every time I see it.

The Garhauer looks more clunky. The horn appears to be a separate (stainless?) piece attached to an extrusion. Aluminum? If so, the mating surface should run flatter than a cast piece. And in a quick search, it's half the cost of the Schaefer. @AdventurousAnton - I'll be interested in hearing if that knob on top gets in the way for you.

I'm often struck by how much aesthetics figures into my choices for boat gear.

 

[Nick J]

I got down to the boat at lunch today and took a few pics of the track. The screw heads aren't off by much, but I noticed some corrosion. It still doesn't look like enough to be a problem, but it is noticeable. I have not intentions of rebedding the track, but I did take a quick look behind the headliner and noticed they are screwed into the toe rail. They don't use nuts, let alone backing plates and washers.

 

[AdventurousAnton]

The brush draws attention to the pole. One of my greatest accomplishments in life was to hang that from the stanchions to clear the deck for feet. Mine hangs on the outside, which also allows ankle room. I suppose this is less critical if you don't have big feet.

YUP! I Removed them right before our sail past the Port of Oakland and out to SF Bay...I've got the stanchion mounts in hand and will install them after it's not 95 degrees here on Alameda.

 

[AdventurousAnton]

The Garhauer looks more clunky. The horn appears to be a separate (stainless?) piece attached to an extrusion. Aluminum? If so, the mating surface should run flatter than a cast piece. And in a quick search, it's half the cost of the Schaefer. @AdventurousAnton - I'll be interested in hearing if that knob on top gets in the way for you.

I'm often struck by how much aesthetics figures into my choices for boat gear.

I'll keep everyone posted after they arrive and get installed. And yeah, it was half the cost, returnable, and looks to be a good fit. Esthetics be damned (LOL), if it works, it stays.

 

[bigd14]

It still doesn't look like enough to be a problem, but it is noticeable.

Could you take a file to the high spots? I had to file down a few dings in the track to get the cleats to slide.

 

[Nick J]

I could, but everything else works with no problem and the two cleats had a small defect in the casting. The stainless fasteners are harder than the aluminum track. With my limited skill, using a file would probably end up with a screw standing even higher than the botched t track.

I think the takeaway from my experience is to try the Schaefer cleats from a retailer who accepts returns. If they work, they are a perfect solution. If not, return them and move on. It's not worth rebeddung the track if everything else fits.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

I could, but everything else works with no problem and the two cleats had a small defect in the casting. The stainless fasteners are harder than the aluminum track. With my limited skill, using a file would probably end up with a screw standing even higher than the botched t track.

I think the takeaway from my experience is to try the Schaefer cleats from a retailer who accepts returns. If they work, they are a perfect solution. If not, return them and move on. It's not worth rebeddung the track if everything else fits.

If you Really wanted to make them work, it would be relatively easy for a machine shop to chuck the cleats up and mill that inner surface flat. But it's galling to pay ~$170 for one and still have it need finessing. Those screw heads aren't that high. The cleat should fit that situation out of the box.

 

[AdventurousAnton]

Voila…they screw down and hold very securely, and are quite heav-duty (and heavy). I think I’ve found my solution, and yes, the T-Track was exactly the size Christian mentioned. I’ll let you know if the screw knob gets in the way…a few test lassos indicates the knobs will be a non-issue.