E32-3 Survey & questions
- Thread starter TLEO
- Start date
The SS pieces that pass the shroud load thru the deck may need re-bedding. When I checked on ours, about 15 years ago when the rig was down, there was no moisture, but there was also no solid frp filler either. All the 80's EY boats, AFAIK, used a couple of forged U bolts to attach the shrouds -- check the inside of the 90 degreed corners for microscopic cracks. Not a common problem, but not uncommon either.
If you do find a questionable U bolt, check with Garhauer for an economical replacement. Generally, just have a (hopefully a very good) surveyor tap the deck and use a meter on it -- same as any boat over XX years old.
Let us know how this goes.
If you do find a questionable U bolt, check with Garhauer for an economical replacement. Generally, just have a (hopefully a very good) surveyor tap the deck and use a meter on it -- same as any boat over XX years old.
Let us know how this goes.
$.02 from a novice:
I would try to operate as much of the boat as is possible.
Through-hulls, wheels, rudder, levers, bilge pumps, anything that is supposed to move/turn on. Electronics, portlights. Hose down all of the windows and see if you get any leaks. Examine all of the lines for wear. The toilet - does it work, do all of the valves and through - hulls associated with the head, etc.. Sheaves, outhauls, halyards, winches, roller furler. Will you have to invest hours and hours in rebuilding stuff? Get that in the price you pay now.
Don't assume the surveyor will do all of this stuff. Put yourself in a place mentally to be patient during the survey. Take your time. Once the surveyor is done with his report, he's done, paid, and gone. Much better to find problems now than a month into your ownership. Spend an extra couple of hours during the survey and be a bit of a pain for everyone now.
Once the deal closes, you're on your own (save for the forum help, which is great but doesn't pay for parts or your time!)
I would try to operate as much of the boat as is possible.
Through-hulls, wheels, rudder, levers, bilge pumps, anything that is supposed to move/turn on. Electronics, portlights. Hose down all of the windows and see if you get any leaks. Examine all of the lines for wear. The toilet - does it work, do all of the valves and through - hulls associated with the head, etc.. Sheaves, outhauls, halyards, winches, roller furler. Will you have to invest hours and hours in rebuilding stuff? Get that in the price you pay now.
Don't assume the surveyor will do all of this stuff. Put yourself in a place mentally to be patient during the survey. Take your time. Once the surveyor is done with his report, he's done, paid, and gone. Much better to find problems now than a month into your ownership. Spend an extra couple of hours during the survey and be a bit of a pain for everyone now.
Once the deal closes, you're on your own (save for the forum help, which is great but doesn't pay for parts or your time!)
Agreed, my surveyor missed a lot of expensive things I ended up having to replace/repair the first year of ownership (because I didn't know what to look for on my own at the time - and I wanted a safe boat, I'm conservative in nature). Check the keel when it's out of the water for discolored drip-like stains emanating from the keel/hull joint. Also, spike the plywood pads under the seacocks to see their condition, in addition to seeing if the seacocks themselves are frozen. Open the headliners, often a discovery to be had there. Fill up the water tanks - make sure they are plumbed well. Test the water heater - stove - yourself. Throttle control cables are usually things that need to replaced (they should be smooth when using throttle/shift), and possibly other steering components.
Last edited:
I figure the surveyor is there to discover that the keel is falling off, the boat has sunk, the rudder is waterlogged, the shaft log is loose, the hull has undergone collision repair, the decks are soft, the seacocks are dangerous--and big stuff like that. Deal breakers and immediate negotiation points.
They typically don;t inspect rigging above their heads, take no responsibility for the engine except maybe an overall comment, and don't dig deep into bilges or excavate the owner's clothes to see what's under. (But I do).
Each seems to have his or her own standard for small things. What is safe, mostly. Violations of "code" they;re good at. Sources of leaks--not so much. Repair estimates--not so much.
I have gained more by shadowing the surveyor and asking questions "off the record" than by their eventual written report. Much of that is a formality made necessary by the delicate balance a surveyor keeps. They must be rigorous, but also not be seen as killing a sale. Their business is referrals from boatyards and buyers.
The seller goes nuts if a surveyor slams their boat and the new owner goes nuts when he finds a cracked chainplate three months later (well, I didn't go too nuts).
Plus which, one surveyor confided to me, there is a whole insurance-company/surveyor racket involving claims. Easy to imagine, no? And it pays better than tapping hulls with a hammer.
A surveyor who is about to retire can be bold--but then, that surveyor may just be old and crotchety. A young surveyor can be circumspect--unless he or she is feuding with Beneteau or out to make a reputation. Personality plays a big role.
In my opinion we can learn a lot from the surveyor, and they're essential before buying any expensive boat, but you gotta not expect too much.
They typically don;t inspect rigging above their heads, take no responsibility for the engine except maybe an overall comment, and don't dig deep into bilges or excavate the owner's clothes to see what's under. (But I do).
Each seems to have his or her own standard for small things. What is safe, mostly. Violations of "code" they;re good at. Sources of leaks--not so much. Repair estimates--not so much.
I have gained more by shadowing the surveyor and asking questions "off the record" than by their eventual written report. Much of that is a formality made necessary by the delicate balance a surveyor keeps. They must be rigorous, but also not be seen as killing a sale. Their business is referrals from boatyards and buyers.
The seller goes nuts if a surveyor slams their boat and the new owner goes nuts when he finds a cracked chainplate three months later (well, I didn't go too nuts).
Plus which, one surveyor confided to me, there is a whole insurance-company/surveyor racket involving claims. Easy to imagine, no? And it pays better than tapping hulls with a hammer.
A surveyor who is about to retire can be bold--but then, that surveyor may just be old and crotchety. A young surveyor can be circumspect--unless he or she is feuding with Beneteau or out to make a reputation. Personality plays a big role.
In my opinion we can learn a lot from the surveyor, and they're essential before buying any expensive boat, but you gotta not expect too much.
1911tex
Sustaining Member
Six months after I paid my surveyor I finally decided that I over paid him...not that he didn't do a good job on what he did..but what he passed over unintentionally. Surveyors have more or less a universal check list plus what his tenure has added. Tenure is important...that includes the big word "experience". My surveyor had 6 years experience...including a multitude of makes and models. I don't think there is a "model specific" surveyor or he would starve to death. My best suggestion: Find someone who owns a 32-3 for a year or more...and pay him to follow your surveyor...pay him as much as you pay the surveyor. I promise, you will never regret the cost...which will save you a bundle, many, many, many times over !!!!!! At minimum, you will know what you are purchasing.
Filkee
Sustaining Member
My surveyor missed a few things or I later found a few things that couldn't be readily found in the space of a few hours. But what I really appreciated about the process was that when he did find things, he would grab me from wherever I was daydreaming about owning a boat and show me what to do to fix them and part of the report was a prioritized punch list. Four years in, I've done most of those things but still refer back to it.
Mack8964
Member I
Let me be clear in no way was I suggesting you forgo a survey. My surveyor was excellent and like Christian said I learned more about the boat by asking questions as we walked around than what I got from the report. In fact my surveyor stayed in contact with me for months after the initial survey answering any silly question I had with in depth thorough responses. Overall it was a great experience.
Bolo
Contributing Partner
I have a E32-3 (1987 hull #722). There's a lot of good advice here about what to keep and eye out when looking at a boat, almost any boat, prior to a possible purchase. The best I can offer you is what major items I've had to fix on my E32.
- Delaminated bridge deck under the binnacle. Water intruded at the brackets that secure the binnacle guard to the deck. It was fixed by cutting out the bottom of the deck, without going though the top layer in the cockpit, and replacing the balsa core and glassing over it all. Considering how much stress is put on the guard during the normal activities of sailing, it's no wonder that the deck had water intrusion at that point. Best way to check this out is to remove the port side, quarter berth cushion, and then the long wooden engine panel that runs the length of the berth. Use a flashlight and look under the cockpit deck to see if there is any bulging or "mushiness". While you're there look at the rudder control parts (cable, pulleys, stops, quadrant).
- Also look at the water heater (if the is one) mine is located under the cockpit and it has some rust trails that lead down into where the 120 volt connect came in on the heater. Something I missed. It turned out to be a cracked and slightly leaking tank that cause corrosion at the 120 volt connection and in the end caused a very smokey fire.
- Try and discern how old the house batteries are and if they need replacing. Mine gave out while on the hook and took the starter battery with it. I had to get a $50 jump from a Boat US vessel. I have towing insurance but a jump is not covered.
- Look at the base of the binnacle to see it the welds are failing. Just ask Christian Williams about that one.
Dave G.
1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
I just went through a survey a couple of weeks ago. I've had power boats in the past but this is my first sailboat so wanted an experienced second opinion if you will. It is a E30+ and frankly the price of the boat almost led me to skip the survey and go direct to the sea trial. I would say that the survey/surveyor was helpful but not a definitive result by any means. The boat was on the hard so many still unanswered questions in my mind so it will be a long sea trial for sure. My personal opinion is the survey cost is on the high side for what "new" you actually learn. I had previously inspected her and thumped all over the hull and deck so was pretty sure there wasn't any soft spots or moisture problems. Of course he did the same and also had a moisture meter to confirm those findings. With the boat on a cradle he didn't check operation of the systems other than looking at them and seeing all the parts and pieces were there. I guess there is some piece of mind and hopefully I can use his written words to get most or all of that cost back from seller. I liken it to the home inspection process which always reopens the negotiation process while still being under contract.
Damned if you do and really damned if you don't.
Damned if you do and really damned if you don't.
TLEO
Student of Life
I wanted to thank everyone for your time and knowledge. I have taken notes and have a mountain of questions to ramble over while the surveyor is on site. What we know so far about C-Breeze, she’s been on the hard since fall 2018, mast up, sails stored inside. The rigging is all original, there have been no electrical upgrades and everything is standard. There is water in the bilge, which is fresh. The mast step and sole area need work (we already know the sole needs to be redone). The portlights need to be replaces due to the crazing and the deck appears to be in good condition, some crazing in the cockpit, some around the companionway entrance. The bottom paint is aggressively done in many coats, we are hoping nothing is hiding underneath. We are very excited and are hoping for a good outcome and can’t wait for the report and sea trial.
No iron in 80s models. Whatever that is, it does seem to be deeper than the usual multiple layers of paint. Old filler in a gouge? Some tapping and scraping would tell.
I am 92% sure that all of the Bruce King designs used lead ballast. As for finding filler from some forgotten DIY "fairing" job, such things happen... and it's possible that it was done for real $ by a yard, also. (sigh)
Good question for the surveyor.
I would look to see if the cracks are just in the gel coat, which might be cosmetic and easily fixed. I would try to see if there were related trauma damage, perhaps by whacking a dock. I'd wonder if the chainplate and the forestay tension were responsible, and look for distortion of the structure. I'd eyeball the chainplate itself, looking for any sign however slight of a crack in the stainless--not expecting to find any.
I'd probably then say to myself, well, the fiberglass of the bow seems unaffected, the pointy end musta flexed a little and cracked the gel coat, and if that's all it is, no matter.
I would look to see if the cracks are just in the gel coat, which might be cosmetic and easily fixed. I would try to see if there were related trauma damage, perhaps by whacking a dock. I'd wonder if the chainplate and the forestay tension were responsible, and look for distortion of the structure. I'd eyeball the chainplate itself, looking for any sign however slight of a crack in the stainless--not expecting to find any.
I'd probably then say to myself, well, the fiberglass of the bow seems unaffected, the pointy end musta flexed a little and cracked the gel coat, and if that's all it is, no matter.
I have a crack just like that. My PO said that he'd initially moored the boat too far into the slip, so that the anchor roller fitting overlapped the dock slightly, and when big wake came through the marina, the fitting came down on the dock. He thinks that how the crack happened.
- I tie up with the bow well back from the dock!
- I tie up with the bow well back from the dock!