Engine Compartment Clean up

trickdhat

Member III
Blogs Author
We’re scheduling a haul out later this month to get the bottom painted, cutlass bearing replaced, speed transducer replaced, and install a dripless shaft seal. The previous owner left the stuffing box unattended while they had to deal with some health issues which damaged the engine mounts, paint on the transmission, and coupling. I’m thinking this would be a good time to pull the engine to address all of the issues without having to do boat yoga around it . While the engine is out I would like to:
  • Clean and paint the engine compartment
  • Install sound insulation
  • Replace battery cable to the starter and run a second dedicated cable to the alternator
  • Add wires for oil and water temp sensor
  • Replace engine mounts
  • Replace hoses (manual and automatic bilge, water, and cockpit drain)
  • Repaint transmission
  • Potentially replace output flange
  • New throttle and gear shift cables
  • Rewire AC to the water heater (old cables have been cut back a few times and they are banjo tight now)
  • Clean up wiring run to binnacle and install conduit for future wiring
  • Install remote oil filter kit
Removing the engine seems like a lot of work, so I’d like to make sure I take full advantage of the situation. Is there anything I’m missing? I’m thinking I can take care of most if not all of the above list, then have the yard reinstall and do the alignment.

Any recommendations on paint, sound insulation, etc.?
20220905_170040.jpg
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Just be aware that these projects tend to take on their own life and then grow and grow.
"Oh those wires..."
"Oh that cable..."
"Oh that..."
It's important to ALWAYS come back to "Is this needed?"

Since you asked about sound proofing, there are all sorts of products out there, but one of the least expensive and most effective is Rockwool from your local Home Depot. You can slice it as thick or thin as desired and then use metal (or any other) tape to make blankets and pads by using Tyvek as the facing material, kinda like pillow cases which you glue on with spray glue. The Rockwool is absolutely not flammable and Tyvek shrinks away from flame, plus is breathable so it won't hold water.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I found when installing a dripless that the propeller shaft needed replacement. Also, re the dripless, negotiate whether a vent line or a seawater supply line is required. A vent is better, if the yard will do it.

I don't know much about comparative insulation, but I was pleased with this stuff, expensive though it is.
 

trickdhat

Member III
Blogs Author
I just received the quote for installing the dripless and they included replacing the shaft and plumbing a vent line, so it sounds like they're on the right track.
 

JSM

Member III
I had our engine out this past winter to install a new transmission. While it was out I used the opportunity to install the 1" sound insulation that West Marine sells.
Very easy to install and made a HUGE difference !
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
I had our engine out this past winter to install a new transmission. While it was out I used the opportunity to install the 1" sound insulation that West Marine sells.
Very easy to install and made a HUGE difference !
People may think me a bit obsessive about heat and fire but then that comes from decades of accident investigations. The WM products are good for sound and similar DO have a "elastomer-coated fiberglass for surface heat protection." The downside is that they are only rated to 225F which is far less than an exhaust leak, let alone a red exhaust stack or actual flame.

The nice thing about making Rockwool blankets (other than how inexpensive it is) is that it is literally not combustible because the base material is - rock. Fiberglass also is non-combustible but not as good for sound deadening and if bagged can hold water.
 

Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, new owners 7/21
Hey Nick,
Sounds like you've pretty much got things covered. When we had our engine pulled and remounted the mechanic recommended having a number of things checked out. The prop shop said the prop was good. The shaft prop key slot and coupler were problematic. We had an inch of shaft cut off and new key slot milled. The coupler was replaced. The mechanic recommended adding a drive saver which we purchased. We also had the starter and alternator checked by an engine electric shop, tho those could be removed without pulling the engine. You're probably on top of heat exchanger maintenance, but that's easy access with the engine out. The raw water pump had been leaking for some time and there was a lot of rust on the oil pan where the dipstick mounts. I cleaned that thoroughly, determined it was sound, and repainted. Your engine is relatively new, so likely fine.
The engine out was somewhat helpful in replacing the cockpit drain hoses. There's a whole octopus of potable water lines back there. If we'd had time, I would have replaced those. Bravo to you for doing all this. Nice.
You said the yard would reinstall the engine, but are you pulling it? The mechanics hung an aluminum I-beam from the companionway and center saloon hatches and lifted the engine on a trolley. This made it very easy to move around the saloon while I worked.
Jeff
 

trickdhat

Member III
Blogs Author
I'm going to be disconnecting and draining the fuel line and removing the filter to paint. I'm thinking this might be a good time to upgrade my fuel filter to the Racor 500MA (@Tin Kicker, I know this is exactly what you were warning me about above). There's been a lot of talk about these and why they're better. For me, it comes down to ease of changing the filter. I'm tired of having to drive a screwdriver through the old filter to spin it off.

My question is where to install the new assembly? The manual says to locate the assembly between horizontal planes of bottom of fuel tank and inlet of fuel pump, if possible. I would like to install it above the engine on the starboard side just below the engine compartment lid (@Christian Williams has a good blog with it in this position https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/oil-and-fuel-filters-change.914/). I currently do not have an electric fuel lift pump and the filter is located on the port side just in front of the engine. If I put the new filter where I'm thinking, do I need to install a lift pump? I think this would put the filter a few inches above the mechanical pump on the engine.

I've also thought about placing it below the nav desk seat but I'm not sure if there's enough room to access the drain. @vanilladuck had a good blog on putting it behind the engine as well https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/fuel-system-refit-with-a-racor-500.880/. This looks like a good choice, but will be a little more difficult than above the engine to access and maintain.
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
The RACOR is a good filter, just make sure to use the fire shield or get the optional metal bowl.

This photo is from the aft berth in the 32-3, looking left to right. A clue is to look for the transmission and drive shaft.
The tank outlet is at the left end of the photo, leading to the primary pump*, the filter, then a secondary pump. The fuel line at the right goes to the mechanical pump. What is barely barely visible is that the bottom of the metal fuel bowl is connected to a drain hose with a quick drain. The outlet of the hose also has a metal plug as a back-up, so draining the fuel filter literally takes minutes.
20200411_195331-XL.jpg

The filter was originally mounted at the right (aft) on the wood block to the two screws.

* Filters can cause pressure drop, causing cavitation for downstream pumps, so it's better to have a pump upstream of the filter. The other reason is that pumps pulling fuel are far more likely to entrain air from the smallest conceivable pores. The potential downside of a pump upstream of the filter is that a pressurized fuel leak can be more flammable than a dripping one.
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Added note: surveyors want to see the metal shield or metal bowl, even though the rules are ambiguous. There is no retrofit for the plastic bowl (which I have), an entire new assembly is required.
 

trickdhat

Member III
Blogs Author
The RACOR is a good filter, just make sure to use the fire shield or get the optional metal bowl.

This photo is from the aft berth in the 32-3, looking left to right. A clue is to look for the transmission and drive shaft.
The tank outlet is at the left end of the photo, leading to the primary pump*, the filter, then a secondary pump. The fuel line at the right goes to the mechanical pump. What is barely barely visible is that the bottom of the metal fuel bowl is connected to a drain hose with a quick drain. The outlet of the hose also has a metal plug as a back-up, so draining the fuel filter literally takes minutes.
20200411_195331-XL.jpg

The filter was originally mounted at the right (aft) on the wood block to the two screws.

* Filters can cause pressure drop, causing cavitation for downstream pumps, so it's better to have a pump upstream of the filter. The other reason is that pumps pulling fuel are far more likely to entrain air from the smallest conceivable pores. The potential downside of a pump upstream of the filter is that a pressurized fuel leak can be more flammable than a dripping one.
I've heard placing an electric lift pump can damage the diaphragm on the mechanical pump if the pressure is too high, but if the mechanical pump struggles to get diesel from the tank to the engine you'll have issues. My system seems to function without issue as is, other than bleeding the system after a filter change. I'm wondering about the effect relocating and replacing the filter will have on the fuel delivery systems ability to do its job.

I don't think I've seen an install with two electric pumps. What was the thought process behind this configuration? What happens if you loose electricity? Can the mechanical pump pump fuel through dead electric fuel pumps?

@Christian Williams, you mentioned your install has an electric pump for priming. Is it inline under normal operating conditions or do you use valves to cut it in for priming and out once the system is bled?
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
The PO installed it. It's in line, with a switch on the wires. Turn it on to prime after a filter change. Normally my 5432 engine uses only its mechanical fuel pump.

elec fuel pump.JPG
 

vanilladuck

E32-3 / San Francisco
Blogs Author
Interesting - I had never thought of being able to switch off the electronic lift pump on the 32-3. After reading a bit, I assumed it would be fine for it to be providing fuel line pressure the entire time the engine is running (well, more specifically, when the ignition is turned on). My semi-educated assumptions are:
  1. The electric lift pump is needed to lift fuel from the tank and push it through primary/secondary filters, to the injection pump
  2. The engine's mechanical injection pump runs at extremely hire pressures (like 30,000 PSI?), so the chances of damaging with the lift pump's 4-7 PSI are slim
  3. All the fuel lines in the system before the engine block are rated for much higher pressure than the lift pump can create
Should I consider revising this?
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
The Universal engine, like your M25, does need its external electric "lift pump" to push diesel to the high pressure pump. Other brands of diesel, even other Kubota engines use a mechanical lift pump on the engine block to accomplish this.
 

trickdhat

Member III
Blogs Author
I don't know about universal engines, but the Yanmar has a mechanical lift pump before the primary filter. After the primary filter, it goes to the fuel injection pump. I'm thinking there's a limit on the mechanical lift pump, but I can't find any information. After this thread, I'm thinking of placing a new Racor 500MA on the starboard side above the engine where Christian has it and testing it out. If I has fuel issues, I would assume the pressure at the injector pump is too low and I can install an electric fuel pump to account for the 12' to 18" additional head in the line.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Re the 5432 diesel on larger Ericsons, as I understand it some have a mechanical fuel pump and some (later builds) have electric.

There is a historical warning here about an issue if the mechanical pump fails.

 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Interesting - I had never thought of being able to switch off the electronic lift pump on the 32-3.

I actually put a switch on my electric lift pump for a different reason - to minimize the mess when bleeding fuel lines.

I put it just above the lift pump itself, the idea being that when it comes time to bleed I can turn it off and on while I'm working in the engine compartment, rather than trying to contort in strange ways to reach the battery switch, or - worse - just leave the pump powered on throughout and deal with the resulting cleanup after.

It's also occurred to me that, in theory, it might also be an anti-theft thing. Like, if I ever remembered to turn the switch off, the engine might run out of fuel before a thief could get too far. Never tested it, and, yeah, chances are the motor would run just fine for a long time with the electric pump turned off, but that's how my brain works <lol>

B
 
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