ericson 26 circumnavatigation!

[brienmac]

ericson 26 circumnavatigation!!

i have just bought a 1967 ericson 26,and am in the process of an overhaul.i am going to circumnavigate in the old dog and wondered what improvements i should make.
the reason i chose this boat was ,that, with so much talk of other vessels that have made it,i thought it was time the e26 had a shot.
you may think this crazy..........but i have never even sailed a yacht in my local pond,never mind the ocean......
while i am busy taking sailing lessons i am also approaching various publishing houses,magazine editors and producers of sailing and diving gear,in regards to ......
a)writing for monthly publications within the dive,yacht and travel industries.
B)seeking sponsorship,either product or financial
c)selling the story to a publishing house

if anyone has any POSITIVE advice please feel free to share.

we have got the youngest and the oldest people to circumnavigate....now we have the least experienced.......

cheers,.

brien.

 

[Brent Wright]

I have been told that the early Ericson 26's handle very well in rough weather. I too own a 1967 Ericson 26, hull #64 and am new to sailing. I am looking forward to hearing about your progress, Keep us posted.

 

[Landlocked Capn]

Be prepared to puke...a boat that small, Ericson or not, is gonna be a rough ride. Learn your lessons well, or we'll be reading about your rescue, if you're lucky.

 

[Geoff Johnson]

As I recall, Tania Aebi's boat was a 26 foot Contessa and she had almost no sailing experience at the outset.

 

[Sean Engle]

Tania

Yeah, in fact, she made her first landfall (Bermuda) using an RDF because he had no idea how to navigate! Not the recommended way of doing things, but...

That said - there have also been big boats, well equipped, that have gone down because of accidents, bad timing or the incompetentance of their crew.

I would tend to think that knowledge, preparation, and sound reasoning would serve you better than any hardware could. I would think if I were going to do it, I would start with a nice stout hull that could have the crap kicked out of it and still survive. That said - as much as I love Ericsons - I would probably go toward something more along the lines of a full keel, long keel or something that provided more stability and protection of the rudder. Spades have a tough time dealing with whacking stuff underwater (submerged containers, bales of pot, etc ). Last thing you want is to lose your rudder in a storm...

//sse

 

[ken]

Read about Ericson 35 circling the globe.

Hi Brien,

First of all, the best of luck to you. And by absorbing as much "knowledge" as you can before you set out, you may offset some of the lack of experience you speak of. Teddy Seymour circled the globe in 1986-87 with a 1966 Ericson Alberg 35. He had no experience either, but read his story and note his "beefing up" of that already "bullet proof" hull.

http://www.indigowaves.com/seymour

 

[Martin King]

The smartest thing you can do in terms of boat prep is a
close examination of the hull laminate with a moisture
meter. If not already done, a barrier coat should be applied
over a DRY laminate to arrest the osmosis and extend the
life of the hull. One of the best technical publications I have
found is put out by the Gougeon Bros. #002-650. This
covers gelcoat blistering, diagnosis, and repair procedures and
is available through most chandleries.

Martin

 

[Loren Beach]

The Crealock-designed E-26 is a good solid boat. You may have to do some upgrades and make up for decades of deferred maint. before you go... but that would be the same for any boat you acquire, newer or older, given the demands of blue water voyaging.
I remember reading an article, about 20 years ago, about a couple of young guys that beefed up an old style Islander 24 (flush decker model from the 60's) and took it to Hawaii from SoCal. They strengthened things like the chainplates and supporting structure and added a small hard dodger (plywood sides, as I dimly recall). They reported that the only "problem" with such a small boat was the number of bruises they accumulated from the interior...

I would not be afraid to take our former Niagara 26 to Hawaii, with some upgrades for extended offshore use, but have no interest in going clear around the globe.
Have you considered doing the "great Pacific circle" rather than venturing further around the globe...... where death from political turmoil is a far greater risk than from the wrath of the sea??
I say that because we are all heading into an era where Americans may be increasingly targeted in more and more places in the world. (Up 'til now they only wanted our dollars!)
One inspiration for you might be Dr. Andrew Urbanczek (sp) who circumnavigated in '80 in an Ericson 30, with only his cat, Cardinal Virtue, for company.
Have you done some overnight coastal deliveries as crew? I have done a lot of these over the years -- good way to gain valuable experience.

Best,
Loren in Portland, OR

---------------------------------
A small boat and a suitcase full of money
beats a 40 footer tied to the... Bank.

 

[Geoff Johnson]

Originally posted by Martin King
The smartest thing you can do in terms of boat prep is a
close examination of the hull laminate with a moisture
meter. If not already done, a barrier coat should be applied
over a DRY laminate to arrest the osmosis and extend the
life of the hull. One of the best technical publications I have
found is put out by the Gougeon Bros. #002-650. This
covers gelcoat blistering, diagnosis, and repair procedures and
is available through most chandleries.

Martin

Are you suggesting that this should be done with every Ericson? My 1985 32-3 has shown no signs of blistering, and having read recently on the website of an apparently knowlegeable surveyor that if a boat does not have blistering problems after a decade or more, it almost certainly never will, I have not really considered putting a barrier coat on my boat.

 

[Martin King]

Geoff,
My reply was targeted to his vintage ericson (1967) and his
plans to go offshore with it. A close exam of the laminate with
a moisture meter will help asses the condition. If hydrolysis has
started in a polyester hull, it's strength has been compromised
and measures should be taken to arrest it. Keep in mind that hydrolysis can occur without the appearance of blisters.

Not all boats will suffer with blister formation and there are
many variables that determine this. There isn't room here
for a treatise on the subject which is why I referenced the
G.B. guide for any one who might be interested in getting
informed on the subject. As we now know, gelcoat and
polyester laminating resins are not waterproof, and will
allow water to permeate the laminate. An epoxy barrier coat
will stop this from occuring, however it must be applied over
a DRY laminate.

Recently we saw a vintage 70's E39 try to tear herself in two
after some rough weather crossing the Atlantic. There was
no evidence that the hull had been compromised until she
started taking on water, fortunately close enough to land!
This boat had no barrier coat as far as we could determine,
just plain old gelcoat, and I do mean old.

Both my dad and I own vintage Ericson's and have barrier coated
them. In my case, I plan on keeping this particular boat for
a long time and the trouble and expense for me was warranted.

Martin King

 

[Geoff Johnson]

Then it's a bit of a puzzle because a barrier coat is needed only if the hull is absorbing water and if it is absorbing water then by definition it cannot be dry enough to apply a barrier coat. It would seem that applying epoxy to a hull that is not "dry" would tend to seal in the moisture. I have read that once water gets into the laminate, it can never really be dried (something about the water molecules reacting with uncured resin to form molecules that are too large to get back throught the gelcoat). Then there is the problem of water in the interior of the boat, i.e. the bilge. So I'm pretty much at the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" stage. I suppose if I were going on a world cruise with the boat in the water for a year or two (instead of on the hard for six months of every year), or had a blister problem I would feel differently.

 

[Martin King]

Again, I would refer you to the tech manual I mentioned. This
details how to properly dry out a laminate. The boat must
sit out of the water for a minimum of 3 months or longer. In
my case, the boat sat out for over a year in La Paz, baking
in the Mexican sun. In my dad's case, the boat sat in a heated
building for about 6 months. In some cases, you must remove
the gelcoat and possibly some laminate before drying will
take place. The question isn't if your boat is absorbing water,
but how much and at what rate. Keep in mind that boats
built out of polyester have a useful lifespan, that the stuff
does not last forever. You may not be able to get it back
to totally dry, but you must pull down the moisture content
to an acceptable level which is where the moisture meter
readings over time are so helpful. Epoxy barrier coating
techniques have been developed to help stave off the
inevitable decline in the boats lifespan. Hydrolysis is insideous,
and may not be noticed until the boat is really stressed-like
getting knocked around in big seas a la Maverick, and then
before you know it, it's too late.

In your case, if the bottom is blister free and she's out
of the water 6 months a year, I wouldn't worry about it.
If you plan on keeping the boat, I would just monitor the
situation, perhaps have the yard do readings for you.

On a related note, a plug was drilled in Whitehawk a while
back. This was one of my dad's earliest big boats done in
wood/epoxy. She had been in the water year 'round for
over 18 years-much of it in the tropics. Guess what? The
wood was bone dry-it looked like it had been taken from
a brand new boat!

Martin

PS-to check out Whitehawk and other big boats go to
www.bkyd.com

 

[Seth]

Well, good luck. I would suggest 2 things to look very hard at:

1). Cockpit drains. Increase the diameter of the hoses so that the cockpit will drain as fast as possible-shoot for under 2 minutes.
It WILL get flooded, and the boat is very vulnerable when the cockpit is full of water. This 2 minute test is a requirement for offshore racing yachts.

2). Cabin hatch boards: Reinforce the framework with at least a 2-3" metal plate bolted through the frame to keep the hatchboard from blowing into the cabin when hit by a wave. You should also make a VERY heavy duty, 1 piece hatchboard for use in rough weather. You also need a way to lock the sliding hatch closed from the inside

 

[Geoff Johnson]

Martin, I ran across this article which confirms what you say:

http://www.zahnisers.com/repair/blister/blister1.htm


I was thinking of barrier coating my boat, but it seems that barrier coats on an old boat will aggravate any incipient problem. Moreover, I haven't found a way to remove bilge water.


BTW, I would love to know which model your father is sailing.

 

[Martin King]

Geoff,
There was a very interesting article this month in
Professional Boatbuilder Mag on using infrared
imaging to map areas of water entrapment in a
15 year old boats hull. Guided by the map, they were
able to target areas on the hull and pull a vacuum
where needed to dry it out and then repair the
core/laminate before barrier coating. Instead of a
total core replacement, they were able to provide
accurate, cost effective repairs which they verified
with core samples.

Regarding the article you referenced, it's not bad
but I disagree with some of it. Example: not
removing through hulls because of cost? If you are
doing a peel job like they reccommend and spending
thousands for the work, what's a few through hulls
in the big scheme? Also, epoxy is tricky to work with?
Au contraire, I have found epoxy very easy to work
with especially if you buy a machine that meters it out.
And what about the comment that you can only
expect to get 5 years out of such a barrier coat. I mentioned
>Whitehawk in an earlier post. She's 25 years old and
going strong! By the way, these yards all want to peel
it off, but I'm here to tell you that you will never get
that bottom fair like the day it came out of the mold. The
only way is to template the hull and it's a rare boat
(usually racers) that get this kind of treatment. One last
thought about epoxy. They just splashed Scheherezade.
She's a 150 foot cold molded ketch and guess what
resins were used to build her? West System baby
all the way! Check her out www.hodgdonyachts.com.

Regarding my dad's personal boat. He's had many. For a
while he had a very nice E 36 C. Right now he's trying
to finish up the Frog Princess-a 21 foot clipper bowed
cold molded beauty meant for day sailing and overnighting.
He has drawn a 30 foot version of her for Pocket Yachts.
I believe there is a link on the Pacific Seacraft web site
if you want to check it out or go to www.pocketyachts.com

Regards,
Martin

 

[Bob in Va]

Hull condition

Martin - I have enjoyed your input in the past and am following this particular discussion closely. Having done an extensive blister repair job some years ago on my non-Ericson, using West materials and info including the G Bros booklet, I'm somewhat familiar with what is involved and would echo your cautions that it is far better to stay ahead of the problem by drying out the boat and barrier-coating it than to find out later you have blisters. At the time I did my bottom job a buddy who had an E25 told me he didn't need to worry about his boat, as it was an Ericson, implying superior build quality would obviate the need for blister concern. A couple of years later, when his boat was pulled, it was riddled with blisters. I've heard of boats that were sailed in the Pacific on a single tack for several weeks that developed blisters above the waterline in that short time in the topside area that stayed wet. My question for you is this: was Ericson using the same basic materials and layup schedule as the others when the boats were produced? I believe my E23 is pretty stout, and its construction quality appears to me to be better than most mass produced boats of that period in that size range. But were the resins and other materials essentially identical to the competition at that time? I see frequent blistering in boats from the 70's that are left in the water, and have heard that much of it is caused by inferior resins used to cut costs when the oil embargo hit about '74. Does that apply to Ericson as well? I don't seem to see too many of them developing blisters, at least not as many as other manufacturers.

 

[Geoff Johnson]

I've heard of boats that were sailed in the Pacific on a single tack for several weeks that developed blisters above the waterline in that short time in the topside area that stayed wet.

Bob, I could be wrong, but I think that article had to do with blistering in Awlgrip, which does not like to be submerged.

As for the barrier coat, I am still confronted with two fairly strong arguments against it (for my boat). First, my boat is nearly 20 years old and therefore the fiberglass, by all accounts, must have some moisture in it. So unless this can be detected and removed, barrier coating at this stage may do more harm than good (there are accounts of barrier coating actually causing blisters because it traps the water). The second problem, which no one has addressed yet, is what to do about the bilge water, which on my boat is evitable because of mast leaking (an inaccessible cavity in front of the mast collects probably a gallon of water). Again, some "authorities" have suggested that water from inside the boat can cause blistering.

I don't have blisters now, probably because 1985 was a good year for Ericsons and because the boat is stored out of the water six months of the year. However, because of what happened to Maverick (apparently due to saturated GRP), I wouldn't want to take it offshore.

 

[escapade]

Geoff;
As Martin stated, the Gougeon Bros. publish probably the best information for the layman on osmotic blistering. Trust me when I say that I have had some experience with that. I have done a complete bottom job on a 1975 E27 because of crazing (the fine spiderweb like cracks that develope in gel coat). Used West System Epoxy for that project. Repaired a small area of blisters and did complete barrier coat on my 1980 E30+ using West System for filling & fairing and VC Tar for the barrier coat. And last but not least, did a complete bottom job on my present E34 using West System to fill & fair and Interlux 2001E for the barrier coat.
The 27 & 30 never had another problem as long as I have been aware of their respective locations, and the E34 came out of the water this fall w/o a single blister (thank the gods!!!).
Drying is the most important part of the process and as Martin stated the best thing for someone in your position would be to determine the a)is there any areas of high moisture in your lay-up b)open those "wet" areas up by grinding or peeling and let them dry out and c)barrier coat the entire bottom to stop further osmosis. Moisture meters won't tell you exactly how much moisture is present but will give you relative readings on the moisture that is there. I'm unaware of the infared scan but that sounds very interesting if you can locate someone to do it.
It is far better to catch this early rather than to wait or as I did buy a boat knowing that you need to do this. It wasn't bad when I was 32 but at 50 I found it really sucks to spend 2 or 3 weakends grinding the gel coat off the bottom. Applying the epoxy itself is not a big job. West System woks well but has a short pot life. VC Tar has a long pot life but is a real bear if you have to go back and do another repair. Interlux 2001 has a decent pot life, rolls on easily, and I am hopeing it works well for the long haul. First year results are very promising but time will tell. The "bottom" line is first you need to determine the moisture content of your laminate and then make a decision on a course of action. Good luck & sail fast Bud E34 "Escapade"

 

[Martin King]

I can't speak to what Ericson used for resin over the course
of decades but would suspect they used the same stuff
every other builder in Orange county used. More important
was the fact that they laid up by hand, had fairly thick
gelcoats, and decent QC. Even with this going for them
I have seen blistering in hulls from 1970 right up to 1989
and with so many factors in the equation of why a boat
develops them, it's hard to draw any definitive conclusions.

Regarding the infrared imaging, the boat in question
had a cored hull (be glad you don't) and I am curious
as to how well it works on solid layup. It is interesting
to note that this boat was peeled twice and still failed to
dry out. Only with the infrared mapping was it possible
to get a comprehensive picture of the condition.

Geoff-again I wouldn't be overly concerned with this
in light of the fact that your boat is out of the water
6 months a year. If you get serious about barrier
coating, the boat has to be dried out-either in
a heated building, or tarped off. In either case,
you would pull the stick and mask off the hole
and run a dehumidifier 24/7. Alternatively, you could
sail her to someplace warm and dry like Mexico and
leave her there for a year! Don't laugh, that's where
I found my boat.
Regards,
Martin

 

[Geoff Johnson]

Martin, you are right about being glad I don't have a cored hull. At my yard there was a Sweden 38 on which someone had installed another thruhull without removing the coring around the hole. The thruhull leaked and saturated 8 or 10 feet of the balsa coring. The repair was to strip off the outer fiberglass, cut grooves in the balsa every inch or so, apply heat lamps for a few weeks and then to refill with epoxy and reapply the outer fiberglass. I am sure it was very expensive.

BTW, those Pocket Yachts are very pretty boats . . . much like a Friendship sloop. Are they to be made of fiberglass or cold molded? Your father designs very graceful boats, unlike the current trend.


PS It seems that the subject of blisters/osmosis is like the Bible (or the law) you can find something to support any position. So here's a more heartening discussion of the problem:

http://www.marineaviationpro.com/yacht/blisters.html


The author seems to say that water saturation of fiberglass is not the problem since all fiberglass is porous, it's only when the water reacts with unreacted styrene to form a solvent do you get problems in the form of blisters and delamination. He also says that if you haven't had a problem by ten years, you probably won't in the future, a point made by David Pascoe on his web site. If the author is correct, then three conclusions follow, first that quality of layup and materials is the biggest determinant of future problems, second that passage of time is the best indicator of quality (next, I suppose to coring the hull) and third that a moisture meter is not going to tell you anything because all fiberglass allows water to pass through.