Ericson 381 Haul Out and Service Video

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author

Thelonious II had not been hauled in more than four years, after a $15,000 bottom job and barrier coat. The barrier coat is gray, and as can be seen most of the bottom paint is worn away by time and by monthly scrubbing by a dive service. Still, the condition is better than I expected, with no barnacle calcium or lumpiness. The video was made immediately after haul out, before power washing.

The clips show the through-hulls, rudder and prop shaft. Beside paint the yard will also replace the bellows of the dripless shaft seal, or install new unit, after a conference with me. The bellows is about 10 years old, so this is scheduled maintenance. It will be expensive in labor--the estimate is 6 hours @ $150/hour. I have challenged that already, we'll see what they really claim it took.

The rudder has about 1/4 inch of play (I yanked it sideways as hard as possible). The yard agrees with me that this is normal and acceptable. The washer that separates the rudder from the hull, often mentioned in forum remarks, is in this case a thin piece of plastic that seems to show no wear at all.

I chanced to pass, departing the yard, a new Beneteau for sale. The comparison of hull shapes is provocative. The well for the bow thruster stupefied me. You gotta be kidding. The boat has to push that gaping hole through the water? I could discover no torpedo doors installed to close the gap.

The last scenes are of Marina del Rey's new waterfront retail area, with dozens of new boat slips. The grand opening is stalled, of course, by Covid. Will they fill those slips? My yacht club, CYC, has a dozen or more open slips just now, whereas there had been a waiting list. I asked the dockmaster about that today. "Some folks just wanted to get out of yachting. Some didn't want to keep paying dues and went to other marinas [our club dining and social services are discontinued). One moved his boat to Mexico."

Perhaps there will be a rebound when the vaccine has effect. I had thought boats have proved their value as avenues of escape during the pandemic. But that is apparently balanced by having to pay for what you no longer get--the social aspect.
 

1911tex

Sustaining Member
After more than 4 years in the salt.....I see no evident blisters which is amazing! I am embarrassed to show my haul out two years ago after 5 years of total neglect by the PO's in lake water, blisters, critters and all. You could have waited another year!!!! Good for you Christian!
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
That 3 blade prop looks a *lot* like the "Sailor* prop we have on our boat. Supposedly less sailing resistance than the standard wide blade version. Supposedly.

Thanks much for the look-see.

Agree that it is very unusual to see any unrented slips in SoCal... as it would also be in Seattle.
 

goldenstate

Member III
Blogs Author
Good documentation.

I wish I had measured with more specificity the size of my rudder while I had my boat out, as regards the design of an emergency rudder I am contemplating.

It does look like the monthly dive service was a good investment.
 

HerbertFriedman

Member III
Here's an assembly of clips of interest only to owners.

Thelonious II had not been hauled in more than four years, after a $15,000 bottom job and barrier coat. The barrier coat is gray, and as can be seen most of the bottom paint is worn away by time and by monthly scrubbing by a dive service. Still, the condition is better than I expected, with no barnacle calcium or lumpiness. The video was made immediately after haul out, before power washing.

The clips show the through-hulls, rudder and prop shaft. Beside paint the yard will also replace the bellows of the dripless shaft seal, or install new unit, after a conference with me. The bellows is about 10 years old, so this is scheduled maintenance. It will be expensive in labor--the estimate is 6 hours @ $150/hour. I have challenged that already, we'll see what they really claim it took.

The rudder has about 1/4 inch of play (I yanked it sideways as hard as possible). The yard agrees with me that this is normal and acceptable. The washer that separates the rudder from the hull, often mentioned in forum remarks, is in this case a thin piece of plastic that seems to show no wear at all.

I chanced to pass, departing the yard, a new Beneteau for sale. The comparison of hull shapes is provocative. The well for the bow thruster stupefied me. You gotta be kidding. The boat has to push that gaping hole through the water? I could discover no torpedo doors installed to close the gap.

The last scenes are of Marina del Rey's new waterfront retail area, with dozens of new boat slips. The grand opening is stalled, of course, by Covid. Will they fill those slips? My yacht club, CYC, has a dozen or more open slips just now, whereas there had been a waiting list. I asked the dockmaster about that today. "Some folks just wanted to get out of yachting. Some didn't want to keep paying dues and went to other marinas [our club dining and social services are discontinued). One moved his boat to Mexico."

Perhaps there will be a rebound when the vaccine has effect. I had thought boats have proved their value as avenues of escape during the pandemic. But that is apparently balanced by having to pay for what you no longer get--the social aspect.
I assume the video was after the normal pressure wash? And I also assume you used an ablative antifouling paint? If so what brand and specific model, Micron 66? Also, the speedo wheel looks like it has a lot of friction, was it working before haul out? and do you regularly remove it (in the water) for cleaning?? Thanks, Herb
 

nquigley

Member III
Just one more small datapoint about slip occupancy:
I'm the Harbormaster at our small sailing club (also 'CYC'; ~125 slips and 20 mooring balls). We usually have a 3-4-person waiting list for slips and a turnover of about 5-6 slips per year (so people wait about 4-6 months for a slip on average). Right now there are 3 vacant slips, and 6 of our 20 mooring balls are vacant too - I can't recall the slips waiting list being empty in the last ~5 years.
Sign of the times - as Christian said, I think people join mainly for the social interactions (parties and celebrations in the clubhouse, learn-to-sail classes, youth activities, and organized racing on the water). The pandemic has paused all of those activities at our club since about May last year. We're down by about 5-10% in membership this January, year-over-year.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
Herb, the video is before the pressure wash. As for paint, the yard decides--they know what works here. The speed paddlewheel is a relic, I tossed the old instrument when I bought boat (GPS speed is good enough for me). Amazing the thing still turns. Truth, I had forgotten it was even there.
Someday I'll get around to replacing it with the plug, I just abhor getting my fingers wet.
 

K2MSmith

Member III
Herb, the video is before the pressure wash. As for paint, the yard decides--they know what works here. The speed paddlewheel is a relic, I tossed the old instrument when I bought boat (GPS speed is good enough for me). Amazing the thing still turns. Truth, I had forgotten it was even there.
Someday I'll get around to replacing it with the plug, I just abhor getting my fingers wet.
I have an Airmar speed transducer that has a paddle wheel that looks somewhat like the one your video. I have taken it out, cleaned it and verified that it shows speed when I manually spin it, but it doesn't work in the boat. I guess perhaps there is some gunk on the outside of the thru-hull. Like you, I just rely on GPS speed.

Yet another data point regarding slip vacancies.. When I bought my boat back in May, it was a bonus to be able to transfer the slip from the previous owner to me in Sausalito Yacht Harbor. I thought I would have to wait years. This marina being so close to downtown and access to the bay right near the Golden Gate, it was always full. Now, it seems there a few open slips on each dock. I have not counted them, but it definitely looks like they have slips available. I am puzzled though because the local riggers, the sailmaker (North) and the marine diesel company told me they have been -really- busy due to covid because a lot of people are sailing - so I've found it hard to find people. I'm not sure why their business is booming with cancelled races and lower slip occupancy, but maybe there is a latency period before we see their business slow down too. Maybe by then the vaccine supply will kick in and things will come back up again... (PS: my daughter (RN in covid unit at Good Sam) received her 2nd shot today).
 
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HerbertFriedman

Member III
Herb, the video is before the pressure wash. As for paint, the yard decides--they know what works here. The speed paddlewheel is a relic, I tossed the old instrument when I bought boat (GPS speed is good enough for me). Amazing the thing still turns. Truth, I had forgotten it was even there.
Someday I'll get around to replacing it with the plug, I just abhor getting my fingers wet.
I am impressed by the lack of growth before pressure washing but perhaps that is because you have a diver clean the bottom so often.

But still my question, was the paint that the yard used the ablative kind or the hard epoxy like Trinidad? The previous owner of my '87 E34 switched to Micron 66, a very expensive ablative paint, requires multiple coats and still only lasts 2+ years. I would like to strip it and go back to a hard epoxy paint which is much less expensive and from what I can tell, lasts about as long as the Micron 66. The yard cost to sand off all ablative paint and re do the existing barrier coat was about $6K but that sounds much less expensive than your cost of $15k, even taking into account the much more area of the E38 compared to the E34. Any comments??
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
I don't know, but I'll ask.

The bottom job was done at Marina Shipyard in Long Beach by the former owner, just before selling the boat. They did it right, removed all old paint, fixed any blisters, barrier coat, paint. The snapshots he gave me show the full OSHA monte, tented shed, etc. Yeah, $15K is excessive. But that was the bill, and he paid it.
 

HerbertFriedman

Member III
I don't know, but I'll ask.

The bottom job was done at Marina Shipyard in Long Beach by the former owner, just before selling the boat. They did it right, removed all old paint, fixed any blisters, barrier coat, paint. The snapshots he gave me show the full OSHA monte, tented shed, etc. Yeah, $15K is excessive. But that was the bill, and he paid it.
From the look of the bottom, where most of the bottom paint was gone, I would bet the paint was the ablative variety. I guess the next logical question is what do you plan on putting on, ablative or having what is left sanded off and epoxy applied? I am in the SF bay area so I would bet the conditions for long lasting bottom paint are similar, although you are several hundred miles south so probably a warmer water, i.e. more growth.
 

Kenneth K

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Regarding the PSS rebuild versus replace question, I just had the same discussion with my yard. My PSS bellows was destroyed when a transducer cable got wrapped around the spinning prop shaft.

The yard recommended a PSS rebuild kit on my existing PSS. I asked them to put in a new unit because I know the new ones all have an air vent line, and thus, don’t require “burping” the seal after launch. The yard stuck with their recommendation of rebuilding the existing PSS because: (1) It is commonly accepted that slow-moving sailboats don’t need a vent line, (2) PYI‘s (the mfg) decision to vent all new PSS’s was apparently a manufacturing decision so they only had to produce one type of housing on the line, (3) That a dissimilar metals problem between the carbon shaft seal and the stainless steel vent hose barb requires the addition of insulating seals between those two parts. Apparently those insulating seals can fail, and my yard claims to have had to replace two of those failed seals in two different boats, and (4) Adding a vent line means it has to be routed to a location that’s always above the heeled water line.

In other words, the vent line isn’t required, but it is just one more thing that can fail and try to sink your boat. I went with their recommendation to rebuild the existing seal, though, obviously, thousands of boats every year put in the new ones.

By the way, your neighbor with the expensive new Beneteau should really unpack it from the square shipping crate it came delivered in.
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
I've had the yard install a new dripless, with small through-hull and water line. The yard won't guarantee without the irrigation, per manufacturer fine print. Probably unnecessary, but I followed the protocol.

Today we discussed some play in the collar key and shaft and collar keyway. They want to drop the rudder and send the shaft out for machining. I think it's a judgement call but decided to do it. The new coupling will have a custom-machined keyway, and the shaft too. My theory is that the last yard reassembled with the wrong sized key, accepting less than a firm fit. As a result the shaft was really being held in the coupling by the set screws.

The rudder and shaft proved in good shape, the bronze quadrant came off easily, the rudder post and top bearings are in good shape.

The cutlass bearing has worn away, with no lubrication grooves visible. The strut and shaft log are fine. New cutlass bearing is $120 for the part. They'll cut it out, not have to pound it out as when the shaft is still in place.

Herb, the old paint was hard, not ablative. The new paint is hard Petit Trinidad. I stuck with the color black. I believe the expensive bottom job four years ago used Petit Protect, the anti-blister epoxy barrier visible as the gray undercoat.
 
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Filkee

Member III
in my short boat life, I have become accustomed to staring at my bottom for more months out of the year than I see the topsides. The annual clearing of the zebra mussels from the paddle wheel, etc.

I kind of like the idea of taking the bottom paint all the way up to the boot stripe. The white bit in between is just another opportunity to scrub anyway

What basin is all the new retail in? It’s not out by the old Fisherman’s Village, is it?

And regarding the Beneteau, it looks like they just cut a floor out of the Marina City Club.
 

HerbertFriedman

Member III
ve
I've had the yard install a new dripless, with small through-hull and water line. The yard won't guarantee without the irrigation, per manufacturer fine print. Probably unnecessary, but I followed the protocol.

Today we discussed some play in the collar key and shaft and collar keyway. They want to drop the rudder and send the shaft out for machining. I think it's a judgement call but decided to do it. The new coupling will have a custom-machined keyway, and the shaft too. My theory is that the last yard reassembled with the wrong sized key, accepting less than a firm fit. As a result the shaft was really being held in the coupling by the set screws.

The rudder and shaft proved in good shape, the bronze quadrant came off easily, the rudder post and top bearings are in good shape.

The cutlass bearing has worn away, with no lubrication groves visible. The strut and shaft log are fine. New cutlass bearing is $120 for the part. They'll cut it out, not have to pound it out as when the shaft is still in place.

Herb, the old paint was hard, not ablative. The new paint is hard Petit Trinidad. I stuck with the color black. I believe the expensive bottom job four years ago used Petit Protect, the anti-blister epoxy barrier visible as the gray undercoat.
I am surprised that the old bottom paint was the "hard" kind, I thought only aggressive sanding could wear it away. Regarding the water line and thru hull for the dripless, I need to have my dripless examined, it is about 10 years old but appears to be in good shape. Was the thru hull for the water cooling line above or below the water line, and if below was there a shut off valve used?
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
ve

I am surprised that the old bottom paint was the "hard" kind, I thought only aggressive sanding could wear it away. Regarding the water line and thru hull for the dripless, I need to have my dripless examined, it is about 10 years old but appears to be in good shape. Was the thru hull for the water cooling line above or below the water line, and if below was there a shut off valve used?
My dripless vent is plumbed to the mixing elbow off my exhaust, no thru hull required.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Note that it is just a vent, and some boats have it routed up to the inside of the cockpit footwell.
Different for powerboats, who inject water into it to prevent water from being pulled out of the shaft alley at speeds over 12 kts.

Also, if you have this vent (i.e. choose to use it) be very sure that the hose is of reinforced material and checked regularly. It's a small hose, but if it breaks or falls off, water would steady enter the boat.
 
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