Fuel Polishing ASAP

[MarkA]

Need a good, affordable fuel polishing service near San Pedro, ASAP! And/or a good fabricator who can cut an inspection port into my aluminum tank, and fabricate a cover for it.

I've never had a problem with clogged filters or fuel lines. But yesterday, I cleaned the RACOR 500 and replaced the element. There was some sludge at the bottom of the bowl. I also changed the filter on the motor.

After running for half an hour today, the RACOR filter was not only clogged, but so was the fuel line running to it! The motor died in the Main Channel of Los Angeles Harbor, in a stiff breeze, under the Vincent Thomas Bridge. We were doing maintenance, and were not even near set up for sailing, so we were dead in the water. We nearly blew into a container ship which would have dismasted us because of the overhanging stuff on it's deck, and then nearly onto the rocks. A passing fisherman towed us and by the time we were under weigh, we were only two boat widths from the rocks, and had only 15-20 seconds to spare. We got back to the slip with no problems because of good timing and good samaritans.

But why did the filters suddenly get so clogged? We ran to and from Catalina last week, and the old filter was pretty clean, but for some sludge in the bottom of the bowl. The new filter is clogged with what looks like black oatmeal!

 

[ralph roddam]

ffueel polisher

I can sell you a new fuel polisher for half the west marine price .Its easy tto install,I have one on my 35-2:nerd:

 

[tilwinter]

But why did the filters suddenly get so clogged? We ran to and from Catalina last week, and the old filter was pretty clean, but for some sludge in the bottom of the bowl. The new filter is clogged with what looks like black oatmeal!

I am of the opinion that all old diesel tanks are coated with asphaltene. Everyone is "taught" that the sediment is "algae", and can be killed with biocide. In fact, the alphaltene continuously precipitates out of the diesel over time. Additives can slow but not stop the precess. The tank needs to be cleaned periodically. Filtering the fuel will not help. The first time the boat gets badly bounced in a seaway, there you are.

Just my opinion. This has been discussed previously, and not everyone agrees with me on this.

 

[Tom Plummer]

Home made fuel polisher

Attached is a pdf file that is a drawing of how I made a fuel polishing system for my boat. The whole thing minus the multitude of filters I went through was less than $100.00.View attachment FUEL-1.pdf

 

[MarkA]

I'm cutting three 5" inspection ports today, while a friend is fabricating covers and backing plates. Gonna scrub that sucker clean and build a polishing system.

 

[mherrcat]

I guess I don't see the benefit of setting up a bypass system that runs your fuel through the primary filter and back into a tank that is dirty. Pulling the tank out and cleaning it seems like the right way to do it.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

I just went through a similar situation last Saturday. I was in the main channel as well but the engine just sputtered and I was able to motor back to my slip at Cabrillo Marina okay. It was nerve racking because I have had my engine completely shut down about a year and a half ago at Parker's Landing in LB. I spent Sunday morning changing the filter and clearing the line before the filter.

After the incident a year and a half ago, I was trying to burn a lot of the old fuel out of the tank. I changed my filters twice between now and then. I took samples of the contaminated fuel from the line before the filter and a sample of the fuel in the filter to my mechanic. He just recommended that I change the filter more often and to keep the tank topped off as well as to add Diesel Biocide and Star Tron Enzyme fuel additive (but no more than recommended!) until I am really ready to go to the expense of replacing the tank.

I have a 37 year old "Steel" tank btw, and my mechanic said that polishing would only be a Band-Aid. The other option he mentioned would be to clean the tank with muriatic acid and do a ceramic coating on the tank. He also said that to remove my old tank, it would have to be cut up to be removed. In the mean time, I stocked up on filters and I am going to keep a close eye on the crud that accumulates in the clear plastic cup at the bottom of the filter. Once I see the bottom being coated with that brown crap, I will change the filter. I use a Racor 2 micron filter.

I have loosely calculated that I will need to replace the primary filter every 40 hrs of motoring.

I have been told by a couple of mechanics now to keep the tank full, and it will be less likely for condensation to form and bacteria to grow. On the other hand I spoke to a Guy who cleans tanks up in MDR that said I should only keep a few gallons in at time or what I expect to use.

It's like the old saying goes: You ask 10 people, you get 10 answers. Wish me luck with my budget plan please.

http://mystarbrite.com/startron

Mark, please let me know if you find a good polishing service in the LA Harbor area.

Oh, yeah, no black oatmeal in mine, just brown sludge with a few of what looks like rust particles.

 

[tilwinter]

Oh, yeah, no black oatmeal in mine, just brown sludge with a few of what looks like rust particles.

I once kept 2 gallons of diesel in my garage in a yellow 5 gallon jug, and in a few months there was a thin layer of asphaltene on the bottom. This is what convinced me of the source of the problem. Shake the jug, and the particles float.

The boat movers I speak to here in Maryland always take extra filters when they take a bay boat out in ocean, because they know the wave action will shake up the tanks.

It is true that a partially full tank can lead to more condensation and water in the tank when stored over winter, so I do fill the tank for winter storage, but I see this as a different problem.

Because the diesel engine circulates fuel as a lubricant, the fuel is in part "self polishing". I think a separate FUEL polishing system may be not particularly effective.

I paid a guy to polish my TANK by inserting a probe and circulating the fuel under higher pressure. He had a particlate monitor and circulated the fuel until there were no more particles. I did this every three years.

My preference would be to have inspection ports, drain the tank, and wipe the bottom clean, but I didn't have good access for this.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Coast to Coast Marine, San Pedro, Ca

Hey Mark & All,

I did a search for Diesel Fuel Polishing in San Pedro, Ca and I came accross this site: http://www.c2cmarine.com/index.php Fuel Polishing Page: http://www.c2cmarine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=41&Itemid=62

I am surprised I have never heard of them, or him. Nice looking website. Says they / he services all types of Diesels.

1891 N. Gaffey Street, Unit A
San Pedro, CA 90731
Phone: (310) 547-1700
Fax: (310) 221-0795
Email: mike@c2cmarine.com

 

[Jeff Asbury]

no more particles. I did this every three years.

My preference would be to have inspection ports, drain the tank, and wipe the bottom clean, but I didn't have good access for this.

That all makes sense to me, "tilwinter"

I have the same problem. Hopefully I can hold off the installation of a access port and fuel polishing for a while and do it this winter when I am sailing less.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

I just got off the phone with Mike at Coast to Coast Marine Diesel

I just got off the phone with Mike at Coast to Coast Marine Diesel Inc. here in San Pedro.

Man, he knows his stuff. First off he said if you have black gunk it's not as bad as having white gunk. The white is live bacteria, the black is dead. He also said they do not polish fuel at Coast to Coast, but install polishing systems for larger power boats. He said you need to go to Alamitos bay fuel dock to get your tank cleaned. Here's the link: http://www.longbeachfueldocks.com

I would call them first to make sure. (562) 594-0888

When I described my symptoms to him and told him that I had brown gunk, he thought yes it may be because I have s steel tank. He recommended that I just keep changing filters more frequently and eventually it would clear. He said take the boat out and let the tank slosh that gunk around real good while running the engine, and change the filter weather it looks bad or not. Cheaper to go through a few filters first, rather than going right out and polishing the tank or replacing it. Mike is not the first Mechanic that has told me this. He also said that when a boat sits idle for a while, in my case it had probably been about 3 weeks, that gunk all settles to the bottom of the tank, and then you are likely to have a problem.

This is the important advice! When I told him that I was using a 2 micron Racor primary filter he said oh!, there's your first problem. He said to replace it right away and go to a 30 micron. Remember, you may need to change the secondary filter on the engine a little more often as well. The secondary on my Yanmar is a 2 micron already. Mike said I will notice a change right away when I got to a 30 micron primary. No more sputtering and less un burnt fuel.

The reason being is that the lift pump is working too hard with a two micron filter.

He reminded me that almost 60% of the fuel being pumped through the system is returned to the tank, especially on small sailboat engines.

He also recommended that at some point, probably when my mechanical lift pump goes out (which it did years ago). To consider installing a electronic lift pump that automatically primes the system.

I really appriciated all his free advice and I will try to keep you all posted with my progress.

Once again, here's Coast to Coast's website: http://www.c2cmarine.com/index.php

 

[mherrcat]

After reading all the threads about filters I don't understand why people still say they are using 2 micron elements in their primary filters...

 

[MarkA]

Jeff: Several people at my marina (San Pedro Marina) recommended Dois Brock, who runs SeaLion Marine: Advanced Fluid Services. He looked at the tank yesterday, and he's great. Problem is, I can't afford him right now. He charges $350 to test, polish, and clean with a high pressure sprayer. He also brought a fabricator who quoted $200 to cut one 4" inspection port, and make a cover. I wish I could fit that in the budget right now.

So, I'm cutting my own holes and I'm gonna scrub it by hand. My girlfriend spends a ton of dough on a fabricator for her store designs, so he'll make the covers and backing plates. I drew up the designs, which are heavily influenced by SeaBuilt. Let me know if you'd like to see them. It's all so simple! (but I have complete access to the entire top surface of my tank--and I can lift it out of it's location under the starboard settee).

I was advised long ago to use 30 micron filters in my RACOR primary. What blew me away was that when I went to drain the bowl, it didn't refill--apparently the line from the tank was clogged! What shocks me about all this is the sudden onset. The filter I replaced was pretty clean, but after 20 minutes of running on flat water, all hell broke loose. Better here than outside San Clemente Island!

And I was stupid. My anchor line is on my front porch, so we couldn't drop the hook. I had removed blocks and sheets, so we were in no position to raise the sails. We were drifting in a fast breeze, and nearly grounded. Remind me to renew Vessel Assist in the morning!

 

[mherrcat]

What blew me away was that when I went to drain the bowl, it didn't refill--apparently the line from the tank was clogged!

If the filter is anything like my (older) 200SM model it probably will not fill on its own; I don't think the electric fuel pump is strong enough to pull fuel all the way from the tank, especially if the pump is downstream from the filter and the hoses have drained. I have to fill the bowl by hand to get it primed. After that it is fine.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Jeff: Remind me to renew Vessel Assist in the morning!

Renew Vessel Assist in the morning!, get that boat rigged and have that anchor ready on the bow.

I also was clogged at the bottom of the tank a year and a half ago. I had my regular mechanic tell me, "let's not throw the baby out with the bath water" when I was pretty sure I was going to replace the tank at that point. My mechanic came down to the boat with a air compressor, and we opened the deck fill, attached the compressor hose to the exit fitting on the tank and it cleared the clog. I like you Mark am not ready to spend a lot of money having a access hole made and having the tank professionally polished or buying a new tank at this point. This weekend I will go down to the boat and swap out the new 2 micron I just installed and put in the 30. I am also going to keep a couple spares on the boat.

Good luck with your DIY project. I hope it works out for you. Try to take some photos of how you do it.

Beam Winds

Jeff

 

[Loren Beach]

Constant Crud Filtering = $$

At about $20. each (give or take) for replacement spin-on Racor elements, using up a box of those to get back home some afternoon might make a new tank at about $500. or so look more affordable.
Food for Thought.


LB

 

[Jeff Asbury]

At about $20. each (give or take) for replacement spin-on Racor elements, using up a box of those to get back home some afternoon might make a new tank at about $500. or so look more affordable.
Food for Thought.


LB

Yeah I know Loren, I actually can get them for just a little over $11. bucks, through a friend in the business. West Marine must mark them up around 200%.

 

[tilwinter]

Man, he knows his stuff. First off he said if you have black gunk it's not as bad as having white gunk. The white is live bacteria, the black is dead.

When I described my symptoms to him and told him that I had brown gunk, he thought yes it may be because I have s steel tank.

I would like to gently take issue with these opinions....

I'm no diesel mechanic, but I have a chemistry and microbiology background, and I have read on this subject as much as I could over the years.

It is generally safe to say that no microorganisms grow in diesel (there are a few rare excetions). If you have microorganisms, it is because you have water in the fuel. Water in the fuel is of course due to various other problems which can be dealt with separately. I can think of no mechanism by which live bacteria are white, and black are dead.

Secondly, my empiric experiment with diesel in a plastic yellow gerry jug has convinced me of the asphaltane problem, and I have also seen it addressed in other diesel forums (fora?). I got brownish/black sediment with no water and no evidence of microorganisms. This stuff just precipitates out of the fuel.

My opinion is worth what you paid for it, but it is a problem for all of us out there with diesel engines, and I would hate for someone to have problems that could easily be prevented by the proper prevention.

 

[Tom Plummer]

Mark,

The purpose of my setup is to be able circulate the fuel thru the filter when the engine is not running. This allows you to clean the fuel by running it thru the filter dockside. When I did it I started with 30 micron filters, because of the higher flow rates achievable, and when they stopped getting clogged went to 10 micron filters and then down to 2 micron filters. The pump pumps lot faster in the bypass mode than when the fuel is routed thru the engine allowing the job to be done quicker and I am not risking engine shutdown at an inopportune time.

I have had large tanks polished professionally and what I did is the same thing they do except on a much smaller scale.

 

[tilwinter]

Mark,

The purpose of my setup is to be able circulate the fuel thru the filter when the engine is not running.

Now I understand a little better. Did you install a dedicated pump for this?

Also, it would seem that it would be better to do this while the boat is bouncing in some wave action so the tank is agitated.