Fuel Polishing ASAP

[Jeff Asbury]

Oh Yeah, I tried to strain the old fuel in the bottom of the tank.

Oh Yeah, I tried to strain the old fuel in the bottom of the tank through a Baja filter 149 micron filter. I filled it up, let it sit for 12 hours, and it barely went down a 1/2 inch. :0

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Oh yeah, here's a video clip of pumping out the dregs.

Oh yeah, here's a video clip of pumping out the dregs.

http://youtu.be/CBh2k89ClF8

Also, does the V belt look loose to you?

http://youtu.be/fcMdNTLz5yc

 

[tilwinter]

My Mechanic, say's too keep it topped off all the time, and add biocide. Still have heard other opinions on that.

If you keep it topped off, no condensate will occur, so no water will accumulate, so no bugs will grow. I think a fuel stabilizer (like Pri-D) to prevent asphaltene precipitation is more important. And a water absorbant, just to be sure. The idea that all that black crud is "algae" or some biological, is absurd. Yet the Agae-X booth was up and running at the Annapolis boat show this weekend.

 

[thevans]

38ft Ericson with a lot of water in the fuel should I polish Or replace the tank?

Our engine was repeatedly stalling after having fuel filters and oil change/100 hr check and so I had the mechanic come down and take a look at the engine.
He removed the fuel tank sender for fuel gauge and inspected fuel condition & level... Found level almost full and fuel condition had a high level of water in it and so we will need to evacuate contaminated fuel, He was able to get the engine going by passing the filters and ran clean fuel through injector pump, lines, and injectors.
We are the third owners of this "82 38ft Ericson and I would guess the tank has never been cleaned out as the only hole on top of the tank is from the fuel tank sender.
I know every way I look at it its going to cost me. My options are:
1. We are located in Marina del Rey, for $500 Dwyn the local fuel polisher will clean the tank after I make some openings for a bigger hole. If he used the existing fuel sender hole he's not going to be able to clean out the 50 gallon tank too well.
2. Pay 6-8 hrs labour to the mechanic to to evacuate contaminated fuel, clean out tank as best as possible, flush out fuel lines to and from engine, replace fuel filters.
3. I can remove the tank (has anyone done this on a 38ft it looks like it goes all the way under the aft berth? replace it with a new one and at least know it will be good to go for the years ahead?
4. I could cut the accessible top of the existing tank and insert a new fuel Bladder. Don't really know pros and cons of this one as yet?
5. Remove fuel first, cut access holes to more able to access tan to clean and clean myself, and put new inspection port covers back on knowing in the next 10 years I will probably have to do this all again.

Any advice would be so appreciated..

 

[Flight Risk]

FWIW I pulled the fuel tank out of my E-34 to have new mounting tabs installed. Before welding, the fab shop had to purge the tank anyway, so a clean out was in order. Pulling and re-installing the tank was more PITA than difficult. While it is out, inspect it for corrosion and possible weak points.

Pressure testing to 1/2 psi for 30 minutes is a good way to go. Any large diesel generator shop (CAT, Cummins, Detroit Diesel) in your area will have the plugs and guages to pressure test the fuel tank. Typical labor is about 2 hours in shop for a pressure test like this. Use the commercial gen shop since they do this all the time for UL and fire code compliance. Any marine shop will likely look at you like an alien and charge double since it is a "marine" shop....

Next, replace all of your rubber fuel lines, including fill and vent, if they are over five years old since they will degrade with time. While replacing the fuel lines, install a Racor fuel filter with a plexiglass bowl so you can see water and sediment building up and drain it as needed. I know,,,, ABS only approves metal fuel filter bowls! However, we are on sail boats, not commercial ships.... The centrifuge process of that new Racor filter will keep clean fuel going to your engine and give a chance to prevent getting water in the fuel injection system.

All this sounds pretty spendy, but consider the cost of replacing all of your fuel injection components.......:0

Chris
Flight Risk

 

[MarkA]

Our engine was repeatedly stalling after having fuel filters and oil change/100 hr check and so I had the mechanic come down and take a look at the engine.
He removed the fuel tank sender for fuel gauge and inspected fuel condition & level... Found level almost full and fuel condition had a high level of water in it and so we will need to evacuate contaminated fuel, He was able to get the engine going by passing the filters and ran clean fuel through injector pump, lines, and injectors.
We are the third owners of this "82 38ft Ericson and I would guess the tank has never been cleaned out as the only hole on top of the tank is from the fuel tank sender.
I know every way I look at it its going to cost me. My options are:
1. We are located in Marina del Rey, for $500 Dwyn the local fuel polisher will clean the tank after I make some openings for a bigger hole. If he used the existing fuel sender hole he's not going to be able to clean out the 50 gallon tank too well.
2. Pay 6-8 hrs labour to the mechanic to to evacuate contaminated fuel, clean out tank as best as possible, flush out fuel lines to and from engine, replace fuel filters.
3. I can remove the tank (has anyone done this on a 38ft it looks like it goes all the way under the aft berth? replace it with a new one and at least know it will be good to go for the years ahead?
4. I could cut the accessible top of the existing tank and insert a new fuel Bladder. Don't really know pros and cons of this one as yet?
5. Remove fuel first, cut access holes to more able to access tan to clean and clean myself, and put new inspection port covers back on knowing in the next 10 years I will probably have to do this all again.

Any advice would be so appreciated..

I am happy with choice #5. It was much easier and faster than I feared, and very inexpensive. Now I have easy access to every chamber of my tank in case I ever need to access it again. Plus, I have personal and intimate knowledge of my fuel system that I would not have if I left it to a mechanic or polisher--that's valuable info when problems arise offshore.

I don't see any reason to add a fuel bladder, unless you find significant corrosion and pitting during your inspection.

I vote "no" on #1 and #2. If you have to cut a hole anyway, why pay $500 for somebody to clean the tank? Grab a rag and stick your arm through the hole. As for 6-8 hours for pro labor, why not spend a couple hours doing it yourself, and send the savings to me as a consulting fee ?

Just my $0.02

-mark

 

[mherrcat]

I think you first need to assess the condition of your current fuel tank. That might be hard while it is still in the boat, but may be possible. If the tank is not corroded and appears to have years of life left in it, Seabuilt makes access plates:

http://www.seabuilt.com/pricing.php

I replaced the tank in my 30+ when it started leaking. When I removed the old tank it appeared that someone had previously tried to stop the leak by fiberglassing over the pinhole. That did not work. The trouble is that water in the fuel sinks to the bottom and collects in the lowest part of the tank. That is where the corrosion is going to occur.

It cost me about $400 to replace the 20-gal tank in my boat. Doesn't seem like it would cost double that to make a 50-gal tank. Berry Sheet Metal probably has the plans for that tank.

 

[jimk]

I agree with Chris and did most everything he did. i have a 87 38-200 which I needed to pull the tank to access the strut. thats a very long story, different project.
First problem you’ll most likely face is getting the tank out of the cabin. I had to remove the acute angle of the tank on the port side to get it out on the companion way. a loss of only 3 gallons of fuel, but a must. Once out we found some small corrosion on the bottom easily repaired along with welding an end cap on the section I removed pressure test done. I also put what I call an epoxy diaper over the entire bottom apparently required theses days in new boats.
This allows for piece of mind knowing fuel is good shape from tank to engine, and I will not show up some day to a bilge full of diesel from any corrosion in the bottom of the tank.<O></O>

jim

 

[MarkA]

I also put what I call an epoxy diaper over the entire bottom apparently required theses days in new boats.
This allows for piece of mind knowing fuel is good shape from tank to engine, and I will not show up some day to a bilge full of diesel from any corrosion in the bottom of the tank.<o></o>

jim

Tell me more about the diaper! I have some pitting at the deep end of my tank that I'd like to address before I have to.

-mark

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Fuel tank vent filter.

Side note:

In this months "Sail" magazine there is a article about a filter that you put in line on the vent to you diesel fuel tank. It uses some kind of absorbent beads that trap water vapor that get's into tour tank through the vent. I guess most bacteria get's started from the accumulation of water vapor getting through the vent.

Does anyone use a filter on their vent?

 

[Dan Morehouse]

tank inspection plates

The Seabuilt inspection plates look like a good product. I made an inspection plate about 8'' x 10" for my tank and used a pair of large O rings bought from a Caterpillar dealer to make a seal. It is disassembleable without sealant, and doesn't leak; but it turned out to be a lot of fooling around and I would probably have been better off just buying one of the Seabuilt units. Below is a picture of the port, along with one of the tank gauge float and pickup tube. I assume all the black deposits are the previously mentioned asphaltine precipitation. They might as well have been black epoxy, they were stuck so firmly to the tank. But no corrosion or water, fortunately.

I would vote for inspection ports, even in a new tank. Access on a boat is always the biggest half of any maintenance/repair battle.

 

[MarkA]

Side note:

Does anyone use a filter on their vent?

Not yet. Where can I pick one up?

 

[MarkA]

The Seabuilt inspection plates look like a good product.

I would vote for inspection ports, even in a new tank. Access on a boat is always the biggest half of any maintenance/repair battle.

They do look like good products; that's why my home-made ports were inspired by them. However, their prices are excessive considering the cost of materials and the ease of fabricating them. Although I posted this earlier in the thread, here is my drawing for the ports I had fabricated. Feel free to take it to your local machinist and save your money for other projects. (Buna N gasket material is available online from Amazon, and easily fabricated with scissors and a hole punch.)

Edit: One caveat: Make the bolt holes 21/64"!!! I had to enlarge mine to fit 5/16" bolts. Never drink and draw....

 

[Jeff Asbury]

H2Out Fuel Vent Filter info.

Side note:

In this months "Sail" magazine there is a article about a filter that you put in line on the vent to you diesel fuel tank. It uses some kind of absorbent beads that trap water vapor that get's into tour tank through the vent. I guess most bacteria get's started from the accumulation of water vapor getting through the vent.

Does anyone use a filter on their vent?

H2Out Crystals Not cheap, but really could save you money and agony down the road. As well as not worrying about keeping the tank topped off. Here's one link I found: http://www.H2out.com/products/h2out-avd/h2out-avd2-0

 

[MarkA]

H2Out Crystals Not cheap, but really could save you money and agony down the road. As well as not worrying about keeping the tank topped off. Here's one link I found: http://www.H2out.com/products/h2out-avd/h2out-avd2-0

Gracias!

-mark

 

[thevans]

Thanks for all the great tips

I am going to drain the fuel myself, and place some 5" holes for access points. I just found out the baffles run top to bottom in tank so the round holes seem like the best option. I'll get the rounds cut at a local CNC machinery shop, as per Marks drawings (thanks for that). Gasket material I was able to get by the sheet at pep boys, along with Permaset gasket sealant. I agree too much money for the ready to buy items, they seem easy enough to make.
I am sure the access points will be of use in the years to come. Again Thank you for all the input.

Regards
Anita
38ft Ericson Buoys of OZ

 

[MarkA]

Gasket material I was able to get by the sheet at pep boys, along with Permaset gasket sealant.

Regards
Anita
38ft Ericson Buoys of OZ

What type of gasket material? Some may not be suited for diesel.

Also, you'll need a flexible interior gasket that will allow you to fold the backing plates like a taco, while holding the bolts in place as you insert it into the tank. You don't want those bolts to fall into the tank as you try to assemble everything. Somebody asked me how I would do this, and I described it in an earlier comment.

Good luck!

Edit: Here's my old installation post:

I received some private messages asking how I intend to install the plates without access to the inside of the tank once they're in place. I wish I could claim credit for the idea because now it seems so simple, but I borrowed the inspiration from elsewhere.

Before installation, I will arrange two semi-circular backing plates in a circle, and place the circular gasket on top of that. Then, I will insert the bolts up through the plates and gasket. The holes in the gaskets are tight enough to hold the bolts in place when inverted. Then I'll fold the whole contraption like a taco, insert it through the hole in the tank, and flatten it out up against the tank wall. I'll hold it in place with bolts protruding up through the tank wall, while using the other hand to lay the exterior gasket around the hole and over the bolts. Again, the gasket holes are tight enough to hold the backing plates from falling into the tank. Then I'll lay the circular plate over the hole and hand tighten the nuts. Since I won't have access to the bolt heads to keep them from turning, I'll snug two additional nuts together at the ends of the bolts, and I'll wrench the bottom of the double-nut to prevent the bolt from turning as I tighten the fastening nut. Make sense?

-mark

 

[Maine Sail]

Our tanks have never been topped off in over 20 years to "prevent" condensation. Usually they are close to empty or 1/4 full at most. On a couple occasions the yard filled them without asking. Never had so much as a drop of water in our tanks.. The tank now is at 1/8 full.

I even took the last remaining four or five ounces out of the absolute bottom of our 30 year old tank and left it in a decanter to see if any water would separate out. None....Most water in tanks I suspect comes from bad o-rings. I replace our fill cap o-rings in the spring and fall. Cost me all of about $1.14 per year...

Working on an E-32 right now that has water in the tank. Also had a brittle & cracked o-ring....

 

[MarkA]

Our tanks have never been topped off in over 20 years to "prevent" condensation. Usually they are close to empty or 1/4 full at most. On a couple occasions the yard filled them without asking. Never had so much as a drop of water in our tanks.. The tank now is at 1/8 full.

I even took the last remaining four or five ounces out of the absolute bottom of our 30 year old tank and left it in a decanter to see if any water would separate out. None....Most water in tanks I suspect comes from bad o-rings. I replace our fill cap o-rings in the spring and fall. Cost me all of about $1.14 per year...

Working on an E-32 right now that has water in the tank. Also had a brittle & cracked o-ring....

Yeah, I'm having difficulty imagining why condensation would form in my vent tube or tank. The exterior of the boat is drenched with dew every morning, but I've never seen interior condensation--not even on the port lights.

The o-ring in place when I bought the boat was the wrong size for the filler cap--I blame that for the signs of water intrusion I found in the tank. I'll pass on the $100+ filter for now.

 

[mherrcat]

That H2Out stuff looks the same as this:

http://www.silicagelpackets.com/sil...-mm-beads-moisture-absorber-dehumidifier.html

You could make your own canister...

I keep one like this in my gun case to absorb any moisture: