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Fuel system problem

SeaRogue

Member II
I have a problem that I could use some help understanding. I am not getting fuel to the injectors on my Universal M25.

I have a facet lift pump that takes fuel from the tank and forwards it to the fuel filter and then on to the injector "pump" on the engine where there is a bleed point.

The facet pump clicks as if it is working. I removed the filter canister from the Fram mounting bracket. When I apply power to the facet pump, although it chatters, no fuel reaches the filter. Intermittently the fuel will reach the bleed point on the engine and the engine will run for about 5 secs.

I removed the bottom of the facet pump and looked into it. The screen at the bottom looked clean as did the fuel accumulated there. The filter in the canister on the Fram mount downstream of the lift pump appeared more dirty. I cannot see the actual filter because it is in a metal casing in side the canister.

Fuel was last introducted into the tank a year and a half ago when I topped it up. I do not know how long the fuel that was then in the tank had been there. The boat did not get much use.

I put in a few gallons of new fuel.

I wonder if:

1. The fuel filter is clogged and prevents all fuel from flowing downstream.

2. The Fram mount does not allow fuel to flow when the fuel filter is removed?

3. The fuel is so old that it is no longer viable?

Does anyone have helpful input?
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
Sounds like the system is clogged somewhere, or there is air in the system somewhere between the tank and the Facet pump. (Could be a leak in one of the fuel lines that is sucking in air.) If the Facet pump is "chattering" it is not pumping fuel. I would start checking each hose and connection starting at the tank. Do you have a water separator type filter between the tank and the Facet pump? If that is clean I would then check the Facet pump filter (which you did.) Next is the on-engine fuel filter. Sounds like that is dirty from your description, and I would replace it. Then you just need to prime the system and bleed it at the two bleed screws.

Should be good to go.

It's really fun to do the bleeding procedure in high seas when the fuel pickup tube in the tank has sucked in some air...
 
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treilley

Sustaining Partner
Connect a clear hose to the outlet of the pump and run it directly to the return connection on the tank to verify the pump is working properly and the pickup is not clogged.

Next run the clear hose to the engine end of the return with a male to male hose barb.

Continue using the clear hose to isolate different components in the fuel system and to observe any air bubbles in the line.

This is also a great time to add an inspection/clean-out port on your tank.

This is the one I like to use
 
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SeaRogue

Member II
Thanks and a question

Mark and Tim,

Thanks to both of you for the good advice.

I like the idea of installing a clean out port. I am concered that I might open a hole in the tank and find that there is a baffle there that would prevent the installation of the inner ring. How can I know that will not happen?

I can, and plan to, remove the cap which is held down by 5 screws at the forward end of the tank. That cap has an electrical attachment which I assume is for the fuel level sender. Would that port be any different from the port that would be made by cutting a hole and installing the plate that Tim mentioned? Perhaps it would be the same but larger??

The brochure for the E32-3 indicates that both fuel and water tanks have "clean out" ports. Does anyone know where those are? Perhaps the plate with the electrical connections??
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
The clear hose sounds like a good idea.

The inspection port is like the fuel level sender plate, but larger.

There usually are baffles in the tank. Hard to tell where they are with the tank installed. When it is out of the boat you can look for telltale signs on the outside (usually bottom) of where the welds are that hold the baffles in place. The baffles may not extend high enough to cause a problem when installing an inspection port. I don't know, since I have never installed one.

I know the "chattering" sound the Facet pump makes is because it is not pumping fuel because I just went through this after repairing a broken ground connection to my pump. (When it is pumping fuel the clicks are spaced much farther apart.) In my case fuel had apparently drained from the Racor water separating filter down to the Facet when I removed the Facet filter, causing the Racor to lose its prime; no fuel covering the inlet and outlet ports. I had to remove the top of the Racor (old model) and fill it with fuel, then run the Facet pump and bleed the system downstream.
 

SeaRogue

Member II
problem identified and solved

For those interested in the outcome.....the pickup tube was removed and cleaned....it was clogged to the point that fuel would not flow.

The engine runs again :)
 

newpbs

Member III
More Information

Could you please explain your findings further?

What is the pick up tube like? What material/diameter?

Is the pick up tube easily accessed?

I there a filter on the end of the tube?

I have heard that some manufacturers have placed a filter on the end of their pick up tubes. This seems like a bad idea to me. A friend of mine removed this filter due to fuel flow issue.

Thanks for sharing.

Paul
 

treilley

Sustaining Partner
I have never seen a filter located on the pickup although it was very common to use a screen. If the screen gets clogged then you have bigger problems and should be cleaning the tank. Cleaning the pickup screen in this case is just a temporary fix as the filters down the line will eventually clog sooner rather than later.
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
When I replaced my tank the original had some kind of plastic tube; the new tank has a copper tube. The tube is easily accessed by unscrewing the fuel supply fitting from the tank; the tube is attached to the fitting.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
And, by 1988, Ericson put the fuel outlet, with a close-coupled ball valve, at one end of the bottom side of our tank....
No filter on the inside.

When I had the new tank fabricated it also has the outlet at the base of one end.

Loren
 

SeaRogue

Member II
pick up tube

Paul,

I did not remove the pickup tube myself, my mechanic did it for me. I cannot tell you if there was a screen.

My tank does not appear to be 25 years old so I doubt that it is the original. The pickup tube is on the bottom of the fitting at the most forward end of the tank next to the fuel level sending unit.

I hope this helps.
 

newpbs

Member III
Thanks

SeaRogue

Thanks for the info. A friend of mine had a fuel problem with his boat. The filters were replaced and the fuel pump was operating properly. Still, the engine was being starved for fuel. It turns out that the pick up tube had a screen on it. The screen was clogged with crud. Removing the screen, form the pick up tube, seems to be a good idea if you have one.

Good Luck

Paul
 
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