All, A funny thing happened the other day when Marilyn first hoisted our new main sail that had been fitted with a Harken AA Battcar System. Expecting the old friction load, she heaved into the halyard led aft to the cockpit only to fall off balance and end up sitting on the port lazarette due to the lack of resistance. It would have been funnier had she not hit the funny bone in her left elbow enroute on a Bimini fitting. She's OK now two days later and can now really appreciate the advantage of this slick new system of cars and dedicated track sections attached to the old sail slot on the mast. Thanks go to Gregg Ross, owner of E31 hull #63 for tirelessly working with me to attach these five track sections to the vertical mast. If thinking of doing this to your boat in the future, take it from me and fit the track with the mast down and horizontal on stands. Dang that gravity and all those slugs and screws (almost 100 of them). Marilyn bravely went up the mast in a chair armed with an electric screwdriver and tightened each and everyone of them all the way down. Glyn Judson E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA
Harken Battcar System, wow!!
- Thread starter Glyn Judson
- Start date
Congratulations and kudos to Marilyn for braving a trip up the stick
to wield a screw gun.
Martin
to wield a screw gun.
Martin
Nigel Barron
Notorious Iconoclast
Those cars are sweet. Another advantage, although more for a racer is that as you adjust halyard tension, it is more evenly distributed over the luff of the main due to the lack of friction. With a bolt rope, you often get hard spots or bunches. They are really easy to maintain as well.
The Blue Heeler
Member II
I don't even know if this is something that our boat will need or not, but just out of curiosity, what did it run to get the components to install the system and where did you buy it?
Battcar System installed.
Bart and Cheri,
The entire car system cost me $1,500.00 and change bought from a supplier in Florida, the name of which I can't remember but Syd Millman at Harken hooked me up with them. I bought the webbing, needle and thread from a local sail loft for $9.40 and attached 12 Delrin intermediate sliders, four Battcars, one at each batten, with two more cars as a part of the headboard assembly. The loft wanted three weeks and $300.00 to do the sewing that took me a total of three hours over two or three visits to the boat. I removed the almost new and recently installed batten end fittings at the luff rope from my brand new main sail and replaced them with the Harken supplied (actually Sheaffer parts) batten end pieces that the Harken Totolon bearing cars screw into using an ice pick heated with a propane torch to punch the new holes in the main. Greg Ross and I fitted four and a fraction tracks to the 32 foot existing track which took about four (Greg ?) hours or so. We gave each of 100 slugs a dab of Loctite blue as we lined them up with the holes in the dedicated Harken track using 25mm long, 4mm flathead screws loosely threaded. As each section was fitted with slugs, it was slid up (the shortest one at the top) and the bottom slug temporarily tightened to prevent it from falling down in order to make room for the next track section. I had to bring an eight foot ladder from home, well padded and tied against the mast to get proper access to the upper screw holes in the almost 7 foot track sections. Once they were all in, we hoisted Marilyn up to the top with that electric screwdriver and she tightened every screw all the way down. By the way Marty, she loves going up in the chair. Trust me that it would have been about a quarter of the work and time installing the track if it had been horizontal on saw horses. As it was each slug had to be slid up with a putty knife between the old and new tracks with Greg handing the knife off to me on the ladder. More times than I care to remember the knife slipped off the slug and we needed to start that one all over again. Why didn't I do it when we had just had our mast off the boat and repainted? Well along with the mast rebuild and all new electronic stuff at the top hooked up to the new internal wiring harness, I had a new main sail made. It wasn't until it was up that we discovered that Marilyn couldn't hoist the heavier and stiffer sail without the assistance of a winch almost all the way up. This would not do as she single hands the boat a lot hence the Battcar System AFTER the mast went back on. We had all the canvas redone at the same time and the new sail cover allows for the slightly greater stack height. If I were to decide some day to replace the intermedate Delrin sliders with more Torolon ball cars, the stack height would increase enough to have to remake the sail cover. I think this pretty much covers it other than to say that I'm glad I did it for everyones sake. Regards, Glyn Judson E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA
I don't even know if this is something that our boat will need or not, but just out of curiosity, what did it run to get the components to install the system and where did you buy it?
Bart and Cheri,
The entire car system cost me $1,500.00 and change bought from a supplier in Florida, the name of which I can't remember but Syd Millman at Harken hooked me up with them. I bought the webbing, needle and thread from a local sail loft for $9.40 and attached 12 Delrin intermediate sliders, four Battcars, one at each batten, with two more cars as a part of the headboard assembly. The loft wanted three weeks and $300.00 to do the sewing that took me a total of three hours over two or three visits to the boat. I removed the almost new and recently installed batten end fittings at the luff rope from my brand new main sail and replaced them with the Harken supplied (actually Sheaffer parts) batten end pieces that the Harken Totolon bearing cars screw into using an ice pick heated with a propane torch to punch the new holes in the main. Greg Ross and I fitted four and a fraction tracks to the 32 foot existing track which took about four (Greg ?) hours or so. We gave each of 100 slugs a dab of Loctite blue as we lined them up with the holes in the dedicated Harken track using 25mm long, 4mm flathead screws loosely threaded. As each section was fitted with slugs, it was slid up (the shortest one at the top) and the bottom slug temporarily tightened to prevent it from falling down in order to make room for the next track section. I had to bring an eight foot ladder from home, well padded and tied against the mast to get proper access to the upper screw holes in the almost 7 foot track sections. Once they were all in, we hoisted Marilyn up to the top with that electric screwdriver and she tightened every screw all the way down. By the way Marty, she loves going up in the chair. Trust me that it would have been about a quarter of the work and time installing the track if it had been horizontal on saw horses. As it was each slug had to be slid up with a putty knife between the old and new tracks with Greg handing the knife off to me on the ladder. More times than I care to remember the knife slipped off the slug and we needed to start that one all over again. Why didn't I do it when we had just had our mast off the boat and repainted? Well along with the mast rebuild and all new electronic stuff at the top hooked up to the new internal wiring harness, I had a new main sail made. It wasn't until it was up that we discovered that Marilyn couldn't hoist the heavier and stiffer sail without the assistance of a winch almost all the way up. This would not do as she single hands the boat a lot hence the Battcar System AFTER the mast went back on. We had all the canvas redone at the same time and the new sail cover allows for the slightly greater stack height. If I were to decide some day to replace the intermedate Delrin sliders with more Torolon ball cars, the stack height would increase enough to have to remake the sail cover. I think this pretty much covers it other than to say that I'm glad I did it for everyones sake. Regards, Glyn Judson E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA
I don't even know if this is something that our boat will need or not, but just out of curiosity, what did it run to get the components to install the system and where did you buy it?
The Blue Heeler
Member II
Thanks Glyn!
NateHanson
Sustaining Member
For folks who want some of the improvement that ball-bearing mainsail luff cars will provide, but can't afford a nice system like this, I'd recommend a trip up the mast with a can of Harken McLube Teflon spray. I too have nearly fallen on my butt when pulling the main up on our old Hinckley 38 with plastic slugs in the mast track. The effect starts to fade quickly, and for real ease you'd probably need to do this every couple months, but for those who just need a little improvement in the ease of hoisting to avoid using the winch for much of the hoist, McLube might be worth a try before dropping a couple grand on a more elaborate (although undoubtably more effective) solution.
Frank Langer
1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
It doesn't even take a trip up the mast--just spray generously in the track above the sail slugs and immediately raise the mainsail, so the slugs carry the Mclube up the track--works quite well for those who don't want to hike to the top of the mast. The other option is to buy one of those slick little sponge things to clean the mast track--available at most chandleries, and then spray the clean track as above.
Frank.
Frank.
For something in between..
Between BatCars and Mclube is the Tides Marine/Strong track. Less expensive and much easier to install, it gives maybe 90% of the performance of the Harken system, and the sail conversion is just replacing slides (and if you have the right slides now, you may not even need to convert the sail-although the slides that come with the system are really nice..
I am not saying it is better-the Harken rocks-but it is another choice that may have advanatges for some.
As to doing your own sewing-unless you have been taught how to do this, be careful. It is often worth having it done professionally (I have seen too many home jobs come loose at the wrong time). But, if you have been shown the reopes and are handy with a needle and thread- go for it.
Enjoy!!
S
Between BatCars and Mclube is the Tides Marine/Strong track. Less expensive and much easier to install, it gives maybe 90% of the performance of the Harken system, and the sail conversion is just replacing slides (and if you have the right slides now, you may not even need to convert the sail-although the slides that come with the system are really nice..
I am not saying it is better-the Harken rocks-but it is another choice that may have advanatges for some.
As to doing your own sewing-unless you have been taught how to do this, be careful. It is often worth having it done professionally (I have seen too many home jobs come loose at the wrong time). But, if you have been shown the reopes and are handy with a needle and thread- go for it.
Enjoy!!
S
I can attest to Seth's comments about the Tides Marine Strong Track system. At Seth's recommendation, I installed one with my new mast in 2004. It has been performing flawlessly since. A distinct advantage to this system is that the highly polished slides that attach to the sail are very inexpensive - making it practical to have a backup sail or seperate crusing and racing mainsails.
-Steve
-Steve
Greg Ross
Not the newest member
Tides Mast track
I've been looking at their system as well. Looks like a practical means of getting the benifit of a very slippery material for a track and, not have to drill and tap 100 holes in the mast to run new Aluminum Track (Harken, Schaefer, etc)
The measuring kit has arrived at Home now and I'll have a go at verifying track size and slot dimensions over the Christmas Break.
Read somewhere recently that with the reasonable price (YTD) of the track section it's recommended to carry a Spare, on Offshore Boats at least!?*
I've been looking at their system as well. Looks like a practical means of getting the benifit of a very slippery material for a track and, not have to drill and tap 100 holes in the mast to run new Aluminum Track (Harken, Schaefer, etc)
The measuring kit has arrived at Home now and I'll have a go at verifying track size and slot dimensions over the Christmas Break.
Read somewhere recently that with the reasonable price (YTD) of the track section it's recommended to carry a Spare, on Offshore Boats at least!?*