Have 2 questions installing Universal M25 Alternator mount conversion kit

1911tex

Member III
Pics below show the mount with the correct 10MM bolt...thanks for the tutorial!

Question #1...the 4 original studs are not long enough to install the alternator mount, so need to use the included studs...how do you remove (back out) the old studs? Not enough thread on the studs for a second nut to reverse lock it out?

Question #2...Once the studs are removed, will antifreeze pour out? I already have the hoses replaced and fresh antifreeze installed....backwards I know! Didn't think (duhh) to see if the original studs were long enough!

Finally getting this important mod done....appreciate your kind assistance!
 

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Kenneth K

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Tex, I did the same job in 2016. Not fun, but not really all that hard either. As for your questions: Remove the single nut on each of the six studs that hold the manifold to the engine. Remove the entire manifold (yes, it will have to be completely drained first, with all the hoses removed). Once the manifold is off, you will have more exposed thread on the studs and be able to do the double-nut removal trick (may require soaking in PBblaster first).

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Removing the six studs doesn't release any anti-freeze. The studs just close the exhaust-gas openings from the cylinders. If you remove the exhaust flange at the aft end of the manifold (this is the part the exhaust pipe/risers threads into) antifreeze will come gushing out. It is the exhaust flange that seals the aft end in the manifold.

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Here is what makes the project time consuming: Once the manifold is removed, you've got to decide what other work you're going to do while you're in there (unless you foresee yourself repeating this job in the future). 1) Along with the manifold, you'll likely be removing the attached exhaust elbow as well--might as well take them both in to a radiator shop to have them boiled out. 2) May as well take the heat exchanger in for cleaning too since all your anti-freeze is drained and half the hoses are already removed. 3) You'll never find a better time to replace all your engine hoses. 4) Ditto for your starter and fresh- and raw-water pumps if any of those look or act old and worn. 5) Ever thought of degreasing/repainting any part of your engine? 6) If you have a plethora of ground wires attached to various bolts on the manifold and exhaust flange, now is a good time to re-route them to a ground bus-bar, too.

I'm pretty sure the alternator bracket kit comes with the three exhaust manifold gaskets you'll need when you reinstall the manifold. If you separate the exhaust riser flange from the manifold, you'll need a new exhaust flange gasket too.

Here are a couple of blog posts I made after re-doing my alternator bracket and exhaust elbow. Hit me up any time if you have more questions.

 
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1911tex

Member III
Ken you are a plethora of great info...I dread removing the manifold...but your picture is worth its weight in gold color!! I will first do everything I can to remove the studs with a back out stud remove tool first...Happy no anti-freeze will pour out of the stud holes...then if no bueno, I will have to remove the manifold and follow your excellent posts. I do have the anti-freeze drain at the lower right of your picture..used it before. I know your response will help others as well. Thank you!
Well...here goes..............................
 

Kenneth K

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
If you can swing it, your plan would save a ton of work!

If you can get it to work, I'd remove only one or two studs at a time, put the new stud(s) on and retighten before taking more studs out. You don't want to break the existing gasket seals or you'll have to remove the manifold just to re-gasket.

Good luck!
 
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Kenneth K

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Hmmm... don't know if a warm engine would make any difference. I think both parts would heat up together, so it might just be a wash. If you can get an impact-type driver on that back-out tool though, that might help to crack the stud loose if you can't free it by hand.
 

1911tex

Member III
I have a 1/2" impact driver...with 3/8" adaptor....like you suggest...by hand first after soaking with Liquid Wrench...Thank you Doctor Ken!
 

1911tex

Member III
Ken here is a YouTube how to with this tool...if you can stand the cigarette smoke....fingers crossed:

 

Kenneth K

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
I don't get it. With a beer in one hand and a smoke in the other, how's he turning the wrench?
 

1911tex

Member III
QUIEN SABE? También apesta?

Ken: Its a gamble if it works on my vertical manifold because I cant get Liquid Wrench in there like this video. Irregardless, this may be a good cheap tool box item for others...:
 
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zagnut

Junior Member
Tex - I did this job last year and ran into the same problem. I purchased the stud bolt extractor, but there just was not enough of the stud showing to get a good bite on it. I tried with my impact driver and was able to back two of them out via the nut. The other two I was eventually able to get with a small pair of channel locks. I did not want to remove the manifold!
 

1911tex

Member III
Tex - I did this job last year and ran into the same problem. I purchased the stud bolt extractor, but there just was not enough of the stud showing to get a good bite on it. I tried with my impact driver and was able to back two of them out via the nut. The other two I was eventually able to get with a small pair of channel locks. I did not want to remove the manifold!
I'm going to give the stud bolt extractor a shot tomorrow. What is your impact driver? Just in case and thank you!
 

zagnut

Junior Member
I used a Makita 12 volt. I was able to get two out via the original nut on the stud (that's how bad they were seized together). On the other two (M-18 engine) the nut came off and that is when I used the channel locks. Good luck
 

1911tex

Member III
Tex - I did this job last year and ran into the same problem. I purchased the stud bolt extractor, but there just was not enough of the stud showing to get a good bite on it. I tried with my impact driver and was able to back two of them out via the nut. The other two I was eventually able to get with a small pair of channel locks. I did not want to remove the manifold!
Zagnut: I tried the stud bolt extractor today....there was barely enough of the stud for the extractor to purchase; however, even though the extractor advertises it will go down to 6MM (1/4")...it will but it stops at 6mm and will not tighten. Sooooo that's that. Next will try the impact driver. After that, will proceed per Kenneth K........Whew!
 

Kenneth K

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
I always considered that if I couldn't get a stud out, I could always file down and square off what's remaining, clamp a pair of vice grips on as tight as possible, and probably twist it out that way.
 
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1911tex

Member III
Yes I agree and a viable alternative...may be my last ditch effort Ken...I just don't want to take the chance of twisting one or more of the 4 studs off in the manifold, which will result, like you recommended...a complete disassembly...which is still the wisest route and inevitably the right choice. Or buy a new or fabricate a replacement over the alternator bracket, maybe a little thicker than the original that lasted for 35 years?? The rest of the original alternator assembly is built like a brick sh_ _ house and will last forever.
I always considered that if I couldn't get a stud out, I could always file down and square off what's remaining, clamp a pair of vice grips on as tight as possible, and probably twist it out that way.
 
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1911tex

Member III
Ken: Never mind this post...I found my answer:

Ken: I don't want to belabor this subject...but here is a photo of my current alternator bracket with no cracks (with the ruler) in first photo....it is not the broken design (from an old post) below which may have been associated with the original problem. Has there been a broken over the top bracket like my first photo?:
 

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Kenneth K

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Hey, no problem.

It's not the alternator bracket that causes the problem resulting in the mod. It's the aluminum ear on the crankcase cover. The ear is what anchors one of the alternator brackets. When that ear cracks off, it takes a chunk of the crankcase cover with it, rendering the engine inoperable. Also, it's been said that new crankcase covers are no longer available.
 

1911tex

Member III
Ken: I am going to go through with your excellent tutorial......no sense hem and hawing around anymore. Thanks!
 

Kenneth K

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Sorry to hear you have to go through the whole shootin match. Make sure you check out the Marine How To / MaineSail website on alternator bracket replacement. That's where I started.
 
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