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Help, Crack on Bow!

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Today we noticed a new crack in the bow area that I had previously repaired. When we bought the boat the surveyor thought it was just some gelcoat flaking, nothing to worry about. Once I got more familiar with the boat I started piecing together that it had been in some kind of an accident. There were keel ding repairs, hull repairs, a new stern railing, and the hull had been painted which hid all the sins. I decided to sand out the flaking gelcoat and lay in some new fiberglass.

Here is what I found under the gelcoat:
98E1885C-B2D5-4034-9D9B-5B70C3947E7C.jpeg

The crack was all the way through the fiberglass and was longer than expected. The plywood appeared sound and dry, so I sanded down to bare fiberglass and glassed over both sides and painted it. I assumed that it had cracked because of an impact and that I wouldn't need to worry about it again.
F98A9596-0AFB-4ED3-AAF2-673A0EF7E540.jpeg 79DD752A-EB3B-40AA-BB3A-4FB36897D794.jpeg

I was wrong!
Here is what it looks like today. The cracks are new, they were not there a couple weeks ago, and I don't recall even seeing them yesterday when we came down to the boat. Yesterday was our first sail of the year and we had pretty gusty conditions. It looks like the headstay and chainplate are trying to compress the stemhead and causing these cracks, so we took a few turns off the headstay so they don't migrate further. I am pretty sure these cracks are just about where the edge of the fiberglass patch is. There was a bit of discolored water coming from the port crack (I'm pretty sure it was from washing the boat though, its been dry here for weeks).
47F9BA3D-47BC-40DE-811A-DB2BDCE5A8AA.jpeg 08BAC365-4791-48C3-B6E7-BAC74322470A.jpeg

So what could be causing this? Moisture making its way through the stemhead fitting and rotting out the the plywood? A PO's years of excessive headstay tension coming to haunt me? A past collision caused hidden damage? All of the above? I had what I consider normal headstay tension.

My instinct is usually to tear into something like this and replace anything rotted or cracked, but this will be a season-ending repair. I will have to drop the mast, remove the stemhead fitting, bow rail etc., cut the entire top of the bow off, replace all the plywood with G10 and then anchor it all together with fiberglass cloth and make it look pretty. Then put the boat back together. That's a lot of work.

I don't know if this is a trip to the yard tomorrow situation, a wait and see situation, or a shut up and go sailing situation. Is the whole bow going to snap off and send the mast into the cockpit? Am I overthinking the seriousness of this (my MO usually)? Or should I sail it until fall and then haul it out and fix it and do the bottom while it's on the hard?

Advice and opinion appreciated!

Thanks,

Doug
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
Those pictures look like pretty serious stuff to me. And if as you say that crack appeared after a brisk sail I would at the very least try and get a look at the inside of the bow from the v-berth. You most likely will need to get in there to do a permanent structural repair anyway. You can also check the chainplate bolts while you're in there.
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
On my boat, that little “forecastle” thing is just built up on top of the deck to match the toerail and it seems to be solid layup all the way through when I drill into it. The toerail is built up around a piece of wood, under the genoa tracks, and it had a big ugly crack like that that went all the way back to the wood. Elsewhere, it’s hollow.

In any case, the toe rails and bow thingy are part of the deck, and while the chain plate wraps around there, it’s actually attached to the hull, not the deck. So it doesn’t seem particularly structural.

I have wondered, when tensioning up the rig, if I’m really just bending the boat.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I have wondered, when tensioning up the rig, if I’m really just bending the boat.
To a certain extent, yes, on all boats. I have been advised to keep our backstay pressure under 2K#, because above that the 'return' in tension on the forestay diminishes.
 
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toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Well, not just that, but I’ve noticed that if I’m relaxing on the settee at approximately the chainplates, on a blustery day when the wind gets the rig pumping, I can feel a little pulse in the hull. That must happen all the time, when the boat is assumed to be resting quietly in its slip. Working away at any little cracks or flaws and fasteners that you thought were tight...
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I'd keep my eye on the crack and not worry much. Probably fill it with epoxy, figuring that wouldn't hurt anything.

I have no idea of the cause or the structural implications, I've just seen several examples of similar. There's a shiny Hanse 45 here with cracks all around the bow structure. Looks awful but may not mean much.

For peace of mind there's always a yard or surveyor's opinion...if heading off alone around the world.
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Thanks Christian. It's good to hear that this may not be a unique problem, and I'm definitely not planning on heading around the world anytime soon. The initial shock of seeing those cracks has worn off and after hearing from you and Toddster I am feeling better about it. I think I will make a pencil mark at the end of the cracks and see how much they migrate. Unless the entire thing starts coming loose I will think about hauling it out in the fall and fixing that whole area, painting the bottom and other tasks.

Dave G., I will definitely have a look under the bow next time I am at the boat to see if any other cracks or damage is evident. I should have done that yesterday.

Thanks,

Doug
 

gabriel

Live free or die hard
i don’t like it one bit and definitely wouldn’t be comfortable with it because the repair failed. The repair was insufficient and I would seek advice from someone experienced with composites. My .02.
 

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
These FRP boats are prone to flex, to state the obvious. FRP itself is fantastic bendy stuff. I think of my Boomkicker which uses an FRP rod as a spring to support the boom, bending and bending, or a fishing rod with a huge tuna hooked up, bent double, only to spring back straight afterward. But the gel coat is pretty stiff and brittle. The designers of our boats went to a lot of effort to minimize the bend. Holy flexion, Batman! Minimize flex, but not eliminate. And a lot of extreme loads are exerted on your bow. Backstay tensioner on top of it. Cracks in gel coat are to be expected, I think.
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Minor update. I looked through some "project contemplation" photos from this past winter. The crack on the starboard side is not visible in a February 4 photo, but is visible on a March 23 photo. So the crack did not result from the sporty conditions over the weekend. This leads me to believe that water is getting into the area from the stem fitting bolts . The water probably froze during some cold weather we experienced this winter and exploited the weakest spot (the repair) as it expanded. Toddsters idea about wind harmonics propagating any minor cracks may also be at work. In the end the repair is going to be the same, but the fact that it didn't suddenly happen due to sailing this weekend gives me a bit more confidence about waiting until fall to deal with it.

Keith, originally it was suspected of being just cosmetic gelcoat cracks, and I was going to leave it alone. A week before I was due to leave the yard I decided to do a quick repair, and when I dug into the original cracks I found they were all the way through the FRP to the plyood core. I assumed at the time the cracks were due to an impact so I just did a cosmetic repair with filler and light glass. In retrospect knowing how much stress this area is subject to I should have gone after a more robust repair, which I will do eventually. Live and learn!
 

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
Sounds good! In the meantime, you could try to scrape out the crack. Use a sharpened churchkey point. If you find an endpoint to the crack, drill a small hole there to stop the further extension of the crack and examine what drill "sawdust" comes out of the hole you drill. Squirt in some liquid epoxy because maybe it can fill some voids. Fill crack with some thickened epoxy and go sailing!

Otherwise, dry it (heat gun?) and apply Cap'n Tolleys Creeping Crack cure. I don't know as I would do this, though because how will it affect future epoxy application?
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
I've seen similar (though smaller) cracks in both bow and stern. This is from my boat's survey:

bow.jpg

Nothing has developed of the cracks in the 5 years I've owned it.

The severe wrap-around of that forestay chainplate would give me a lot of confidence that the plate is not pulling the bow crack open. I would think more of the chainplate force on that area would be lateral, and not upwards (obviously, the forestay tension is upward, but the cracked area can't rotate up without taking the bent chainplate and angled bow up with it).

bow3.jpeg

I'd keep inspecting those lower chainplate screws & screwholes in the hull. As long as there is no movement in those, I wouldn't think you'd have to worry about losing the rig.
 
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bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Ken, thanks for your thoughts. Good point about the lateral force on that chainplate. I certainly notice that when sailing. There is a big wood screw on the vertical face of the chainplate that regularly works itself a bit loose due to the different lateral forces on each tack. I just tightened it down this weekend in fact. A wood screw threaded into plywood in paralell with the plies is a weak connection, not sure what they were thinking with that one. I wonder if the lateral forces of the chainplate against that wood screw in plywood weakened by moisture is a contributing factor to the cracks?

Anyway, I am going to take the wait and see approach for now.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Yeah, your pictures make it look like that upper screw has displaced a bit. I'd ultimately try to figure out if it's moving side-to-side or vertically.

While that built-up "forecastle" part looks stout with a thick chunk of wood inside it (assuming the wood is dry), as far as limiting upward and lateral side-stay forces, the forecastle attachment seems like it would ultimately rely on the hull-to-deck joint, which probably was never designed for such large forces. When you do the final rebuild, maybe some additional straps (anchored to the hull) might help stiffen up that area.

08BAC365-4791-48C3-B6E7-BAC74322470AB.jpeg
 

windblown

Member III
I've seen similar (though smaller) cracks in both bow and stern. This is from my boat's survey:

View attachment 38929

Nothing has developed of the cracks in the 5 years I've owned it.

The severe wrap-around of that forestay chainplate would give me a lot of confidence that the plate is not pulling the bow crack open. I would think more of the chainplate force on that area would be lateral, and not upwards (obviously, the forestay tension is upward, but the cracked area can't rotate up without taking the bent chainplate and angled bow up with it).

View attachment 38930

I'd keep inspecting those lower chainplate screws & screwholes in the hull. As long as there is no movement in those, I wouldn't think you'd have to worry about losing the rig.
We have similar cracks on our 32-3 bow. Our surveyor missed them, and we panicked a bit when we first noticed them, but they haven’t developed in our five seasons.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Another mystery Ericson crack that seems to show up periodically (I've heard maybe 4-5 mention it over the years) is the gelcoat crack that shows up to the left and/or right of the chain locker. Mine was cracked when I bought it. Three years later I had the gelcoat repaired but the crack was back within a year. It looks like there is a previous repair to the left of my chain locker as well.

Doesn't appear to be anything structural or a cause of core damage.

20170125_180054.jpg 20190903_213608.jpg
 

Chris Mc.

Member III
Another mystery Ericson crack that seems to show up periodically (I've heard maybe 4-5 mention it over the years) is the gelcoat crack that shows up to the left and/or right of the chain locker. Mine was cracked when I bought it. Three years later I had the gelcoat repaired but the crack was back within a year. It looks like there is a previous repair to the left of my chain locker as well.

Doesn't appear to be anything structural or a cause of core damage.

View attachment 38942 View attachment 38944
My 32-3 has a very similar crack but on the opposite corner of the chain locker. I’ve yet to investigate it further and like yours, was there when I acquired the boat.
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Had a look at the bow crack again today and it's grown significantly. I am sure water is getting in through the stemhead/anchor roller fitting and rotting out the plywood. The recent freeze-thaw cycles probably created a lot of pressure in there and split the fiberglass. This has now moved into the "repair before sailing" category. Unfortunately this is a very difficult place to perform neat and tidy boat surgery.

Potential Repair Solution:
1. Remove bow railing and possibly forward stanchion fittings.
2. Remove stemhead/anchor roller plate.
3. Loosen rigging slightly and tie mast to both forward cleats with spinnaker and jib halyards.
3. Remove forestay chainplate.
4. Cut out the raised forecastle area intact with a Multimaster or other suitable tool.
5. Remove damaged plywood.
6. Replace plywood with G10 and
7. Replace forecastle and fiberglass back into place.
8. Fair and paint and reinstall hardware.

Potential Issues:
1. Marina doesn't allow this type of work in slip. No local yards allow DIY work except one which would require haulout, mast unstep truck transport, blocking, etc. etc. $$$, then reverse to get back in the water, more $$$. Other than bottom paint, I don't have any pressing projects that require the boat to be out of the water.
2. Damage to forecastle "cap" during removal. This could get ugly (quite literally).
3. Unsupported mast for a week or more- I know this isn't a two day job, more likely 1-2 weeks given the inevitable unknowns that will crop up, time to fabricate G10 blocks, etc.

What other solutions or issues am I not thinking of?

37DC90B2-56D2-4901-9742-327976E29BD1.jpeg972C0577-91DD-403E-B117-4EC69C22BDD5.jpeg
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Yeah, your pictures make it look like that upper screw has displaced a bit. I'd ultimately try to figure out if it's moving side-to-side or vertically.
That upper screw is a wood screw that is probably stripped out as its going into plywood. There is lots of lateral force on the chainplate in this area. Ultimate solution if repair of this area is successful may be to run a long bolt through to the aft end of the forecastle just ahead of the stanchions. It might look ugly but should be solid. Or perhaps I could thread a long bolt hole into the G10 that will replace the rotten plywood and epoxy it in place.

Now I am wondering if the raised forecastle area even needs to be raised. Could it be removed and the bow area repaired flush? With a new slightly longer bow roller to accomodate my Mantus anchor which doesn't fit the existing roller? That might also require a new bow chainplate though...
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Do the cracks move when sailing, revealing forces at work?

If not I'm pretty sure I'd just glass them over, neat rectangles of cloth, sand and gelcoat, and see what happens.

Just too much work to dig in there.
 
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