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Holding Tank Vent and Other Issues

wheelerwbrian

Member III
Some of the fittings, especially the tank vent fitting, on my holding tank on my 88 E38-200 are leaking. Apparently this is not something new, since the PO applied lots of silicone to it in a futile effort to fix the problem. Last year, in my war against head smell, I replaced the hoses -- they were all orginal and permeated. I should have replaced the tank then, but it was such a disgusting job to do the hoses I just couldn't face the tank, plus I wanted to go sailing. It's a decision that I regret, since I had the boat apart at the time, etc.

So now I am replacing the tank, and have a couple of questions. My plan is to just do a straight replacement from Ronco Plastics (the tank says its a B-187 E-34), since it will fit the space, and how much crap can two people produce anyway? Ronco wants to know where I want to put the fittings and they'll get it right out to me.

The big question is on the vent hose. Currently its a 5/8 hose that runs to the transom with a fuel line type of vent. It exits on the side of the tank and is a source of leaks. My plan is to move it to the top of the tank and closer to the centerline to avoid filling the hose with "fluid" on a heel. I'm going to replace this hose with sanitation hose, just to be sure. But Peggy Hall the Head Mistress says that 5/8 hose is too small, and that it should be 1" at least, and vented to a "straight open bulkhead type through-hull" and not a fuel type of vent. On an E-38 transom this will require some sort of cover so to keep rain out -- I'm concerned about how that will look. She also says that if you can't put another vent in to create a cross breeze, you should do some sort of mechanical aeration.

I don't really want to put a second vent into the holding tank -- I don't want to drill another hole into the boat, and an appropriate place for a second vent is really not readily apparent. Mechanical aeration is something I would try if it would work dependably and not just be another hole in the tank to stink.

Has anyone tackled this? My hope is to put in a permanent well installed system that requires minimal amout to treatment, etc.

Thanks for your input.
PHP:
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hoses and Noses

Hmmm....
5/8 hose with fuel line type of vent, eh. Ericson must have standardized on that, and we also have a rotomolded Ronco holding tank. I am very sorry to hear of your, um, "leak." Yikes.
Like you, we have an aft head and our holding tank is actually behind the head and its hanging locker. The vent hose is a reinforced black "fuel grade appearing" hose. If changing, I would be inclined to up-size the hose a bit, also, having admired Peggy's writings for years and not doubting her wisdom.
I would wonder what sort of larger rain-proof vent one would put on the sloped transom?

Thanks for sharing your concerns. Our own hoses have only slightly permeated, but at the age of our boat, this project is getting closer all the time. Idonno 'bout your boat, but our 1 1/2" hose runs under the counter and adjacent to the head were evidently installed by very muscular gnomes!
:p

Observation: Seems like, when we move up to these big boats, we really get into recreating the whole plethora of urban utilities that are taken for granted in our land homes! :rolleyes:
Water, sewer, power, communication, and more.
All that and never any room to work on systems in extremely confined spaces.
Sigh.... :cool:

Hang in there,

Loren in PDX
 
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wheelerwbrian

Member III
On the vent, I was thinking of a stainless steel clamshell over a thru hull. I need to get back there and in the lazarette to see what would work.

I had the same sort of hoses you have. For replacement, I used the smooth white Trident marine sanitation hose, and it has remained stink free, for at least the past year. It was a bitch to get it contorted to fit under the sink however -- I had to do some rerouting and use a heat gun to make it work so that the drawer would close. I'm going to be in there dealing with the Gusher :boohoo:

Peggy has a good strategy to draw the hoses through the bulkhead -- use a male to male connector, cemented in place, pull the hoses thru and cut it off. That way there is nothing for it to catch on -- I wish I had known/thought of that a year ago, it probably would have saved me a day of work.
 

Nigel Barron

Notorious Iconoclast
I know that SaniGard makes a holding tank vent filter. You would have to ask someone else if they work, as all I did was install it. On a new Flying Tiger no less...
 

wheelerwbrian

Member III
Peggie Hall says they're a "last resort" since they further restrict air flow and increase anaerobic bacteria (stinky kind) growth. But if air flow is bad already... They seem overpriced however -- $60-70 for a plastic chamber filled with activated charcoal. I'm happy to pay for equipment that's worth it, but this seems like something I could put together myself.

If were to install a filter, it would seem to negate any effort to expand the airway, which may not work anyway.

I did come across an aeration system made by Groco, called a Sweet Tank, but its on the order of $290. Apparently its the only system on the market -- homemade versions tend to clog and apparently they've resolved that problem. Again, not sure that its worth it -- it has to run all the time, and that would be a battery drain when not plugged into the dock, as well.

Always a compromise.
 
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Emerald

Moderator
Before you spend lots of money and time on filters, give Odorlos a try. As some who have been around on EY.o awhile will tell you, a couple of us sound like broken records on this stuff, but it really works. Really! I have no affiliation with them, get no rewards, but took my stinky boat and eliminated the odor. It also worked in the bilge as well as the holding tank. Here's the website to read more:

http://www.odorlos.com/


Give it a try. I think you'll be surprised how well this works. :D


.
 

wheelerwbrian

Member III
I use it now and probably will continue to use it -- its just not a permanent design solution, so when I get on board there's that smell. I do the treatment and after awhile it goes away, but then it always comes back...usually sometime in the middle of the night when the boat is closed up and we're trying to sleep.
 

Emerald

Moderator
Interesting that you have issues with the odor coming back. I've not had this problem. Have you tried increasing the amount you use? My understanding of the way this stuff works is it gives the microbes a food source that doesn't make them stink. This would make me think that they have run out of the Odorlos, and are back to eating sewage again, and having a terrible case of microbial bad breath. Might be worth a call to Odorlos to see if they have any ideas.
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Head odor gone forever, cheaply.

Brian, David's right but you might want to start out with a clean slate by removing all the calcuim build up which are the odor sponges that cause the smell to return in your system, here's how: A. Make 50/50 mix of muriatic acid and water, 2 quarts in a plastic bucket. B. Pour 1 qt. into a dry toilet bowl and let it stand for 15 minutes, then flush down. The more fizz you see, the more it's removing. C. Repeat with a second quart as above. D. Flush your tank thoroughly* and add 1 oz. per 10 gallons of tank capacity of Odorlos solution to the tank through the bowl weekly. *Thoroughly means at least 2-3 complete fresh water fillings and refillings of the toilet, hoses and holding tank. Odorlos WILL NOT WORK if there is any other treatment chemical in the system. If you follow the above method your head odors will be gone forever without the need of replacing your hoses with that expensive odor-barrier stuff or your tank, etc. This subject comes up every year and for the life of me, I don't understand why folks go to all the effort and EXPENSE of changing out their system parts and in some cases, the entire system including the head. Just follow the above and use Odorlos, that's all it takes. Will anyone listen though? No. I just don't get it, it's soooo simple and everyone wants to make it soooo hard. Good luck with thatever you do, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
 

chaco

Member III
Holding Tank Replacement

Great Timing ! I am in the process of replaceing a 6 gallon(yes 6 :confused:)
holding tank on the E35II. The max capacity that will fit in the locker location
is 15 gallons (will have to do !) The hoses were replaced with sanitary PVC
and will connect directly to the new tank. The vent is 1/2" sanitary PVC
(Shields 148 - Vac Hose) and exits out the side of the hull. After this
smellbinding story I will move the vent to a 1/2" abandoned thruhull located
in the port transom area. The 1/2" vent is PLENTY suffiient, its the LEAK
thats stinking you out :devil: Make sure the vent is sloped back to the tank
without dips (P-Traps) to retain fluid. Having the lines drain is a BIG part
in not leaving food for those pesky bacteria :nerd:
The sidewall hull vent was also stinking me out and needed a solution.
The other improvement will be a new intake hose system with vaccuum
breaker and strainer above the waterline.
When I pulled out the old tank I flushed it out with adding bleach and water
down the holding tank pump out fitting. After (3) flushes I had a clean
enough tank to remove safely.Tilt the tank toward the outlet fitting while
pumping out make sure it is EMPTY before attempting removal :D
This whole process was a lot less SCAREY than I thought.

Happy Holding Tank :egrin: :egrin:
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
We don't need no stinkin' head ...

I'm gonna try your flushing procedure and Odorlos treatment, Glyn, and if it doesn't work, I'm going to cut the tips off your Viking horns! Are you coming up for the Rendezvous in Port Townsend this June? :egrin:

Anyway, we're fortunate to have fewer problems with head odors than others. I have asked the Admiral about that and we don't have a problem at this time. She has the sensitive nose. Our holding tank vent hose goes out through the hull amidships to a screened, hooded, fuel-type vent (we have the portside forward head) and it is 1/2" diameter and made of reinforced water hose. It works fine, so I don't know what a larger diameter vent would do for anyone. The hose needs to be replaced every couple years or it gets saturated and does smell.

But, we do have some odor problems outdoors when we flush the head. Imagine having to evacuate the cockpit when someone flushes. Will vent odors be eliminated when flushing if the Odorlos treatment is successful and properly maintained? I think we need to baseline the holding tank by opening it and cleaning it, or by using the vinegar flush that has been recommended elsewhere on this site.

Does anyone in the Seattle area know where to get Odorlos or do I have to mail order it? I have looked at several local chandleries and have not found it. Even the famous Fisheries and the marine sanitation place next door don't carry it.

Thanks in advance and best regards,
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Head odor gone forever, cheaply.

Craig,
Look for me in June wearing needle sharp horns that won't need trimming.
That vent hose will not need to be replaced every few years in the future. Nor will there be any offensive odor emanating from the vent when flushing the head in the future either. Hint: As was recommended to me years ago, I removed the screens on all my vents, the auxiliary 25 gallon water tank in the bow, holding tank vent up there too, main water tank, and diesel fuel tank, all on general principle. The holding tank vent was clogged when I bought the boat, an observation made by others on their boats. Apparently some regions of the country have wasps, mud daubers, etc nesting in there but I think you and I are in a region where that shouldn't be an issue.

Odorlos can be found at any West Marine (page 435 in the 2006 catalog) and even bought there, the price is negligible if you consider that the very handy 40 ounce measuring bottle is a mere $15.29. That's 40 weeks of treatment for a 10 gallon tank. I might add that ours is a Ronco 13 gallon tank and I use the same measure as for a 10 gallon tank. The crystal packs are even more affordable but not as easy to measure out or store partially used.
By the way, I might add that our Ronco tank is a new one that I replaced the original with several years ago. The old one developed a crack in the discharge hose threaded fitting. The new tank actually has slightly less capacity because the wall thickness is twice what the original one had. Was this a manufacturing decision on the part of Ronco at some point or did Ericson cut costs and ask for thin walled tanks way back when?
In any event, my old tank was so funky when the boat arrived on the west coast when I had it trucked out after buying it in South Carolina, that Marilyn came aboard and wondered just what I'd bought. I assured her that the odor would not be permanent and in short order I rid the system of it all using the method I outlined in my previous post. Good luck, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
 
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