• Untitled Document

    The 2025-2026 Fund Raising Season has Opened!

    EricsonYachts.org has opened the season for raising funds to support the expenses of the site. If you would like to participate, please see the link below for additional information.

    Thanks so much for your continued support of EricsonYachts.org!

    2025-2026 Fund Raising Info

  • Untitled Document

    Join us on January 23rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    EY.o January Zoom Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the people you've met online!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    January Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

Hurth Transmission Oil [E35-3]

Robid

36 RH #1 Rooster
These transmissions use ATF only because they utilize a Wet Clutch system which has multiple disks and plates with fluid as the transfer medium. They wear out but are more hardy than a dry clutch. The oil is dependent on the viscosity remaining the same which degrades with every engagement (shearing) event. Then there are all the other additives...motorcycle guys really get into the nitty gritty with the high RPM rocket ships. New fiber disks and plates are provided in a rebuild kit...hardly OEM. In Marine use, where a boat sits for periods, some claim the disks can dry out and become unbalanced. Plates are typically damaged by heat, which is less likely with the speeds of the gearing our clunker see. Water contamination is always more likely in Marine applications. So changing oil on a yearly schedule is good advice. Examine the removed oil for color changes (heat damage), smell, water settlement, and emulsification (white greasy). On Diesel engines, Mobile even had a field test kit which consisted of a two-lane channels. New oil in one, old oil in the other...tip it up and the flow race was compared. In another a ball bearing was placed in a machined cylinder of oil, and flipped over like an hourglass. The cap had glass ports fitted on the ends and you would time when the ball bearing arrived to calculate viscosity. Finally running equipment is always healthier in the end. Run your engine (or turn it over) regularly.

One last sea story. We had a gangway gearbox trash out on us. We exchanged Port to Starboard and stripped out the damaged gearbox. One of the guys says, Heh!, that looks like the guts of a Toyota Pickup axle...and it did! We were looking at a few months running using come-alongs.. I ended up ordering a new gearbox using a VIN number for a new pickup as a part number. It got way up into purchasing before we got caught, the reason we got caught was the vendor wanted to know what color...but the best part was that our way was cheaper! We didn't get our dock truck.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
One of the guys says, Heh!, that looks like the guts of a Toyota Pickup axle...and it did!
Apropos of Nothing in particular, I dimly recall that back in the late 60's, a friend in a local sports car club was jubilant about finding a rubber 'gasket' for some expensive part of the timing case for his vintage Jaguar..... that matched a round belt from a vacuum cleaner parts store. And for a fraction of the asking price for the OEM part from England. :)
(Even if he enhanced the story a bit, it's just too darned good not to remember!)

More relevant: my much-loved '89 Mazda B-4000 truck had the factory tow package which included a viscous limited slip rear axle. The dealer was insistent that only a certain viscosity and part number lube be used, replaced on a regular mileage basis, for refills. This had to do with maintaining the friction clutches in it.
We kept that truck for 180K miles, although in the last years of ownership the % slip rate had somewhat degraded from the factory 30%, downward some. A subsequent owner probably needed to overhaul the rear gear/clutch assembly. One of the best trucks we've owned. Pushrod V-6, and oodles of low end torque. It was very capable in up to 5" of snow, with some weight added in the bed.
 
Last edited:

Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
Some additional threads, beyond those already linked earlier in this thread:
 

Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
The last time the fluid was changed was (allegedly) by the mechanics who did our engine realignment, new mounts, etc. in 2022. When the head mechanic took us on a shakedown trip he commented on the transmission taking a few seconds to move into forward. Reverse worked fine. He said it bothered him and we should keep an eye on it. So we've continued to notice the slippage and been living with the specter of transmission failure since.

transmission fluid change 2025_5-25 sm.JPG

I finally got around to draining the old fluid today and got this much out, about 18 ounces. The spec for the HBW 50 is only 9.3 ounces. This might explain the slippage. I was planning on putting 30W in, but after this discovery I'll try ATF for another year, filled to the proper level. Shame on me for not checking it sooner. With the coolant/exhaust system rehab, the fill nut will be easier to access.
 

bertboyer

Member III
After reading through the compendium of Hurth transmission posts that Jeff (Prairie Schooner) kindly listed, including a variety of transmission fluids people have used, I am a bit perplexed as to the best choice. I have noted the following mentioned:

ATF
Synthetic ATF
Dextron III non-synthetic ATF
Dextron II transmission fluid
30W motor oil
Ford type F ATF
Type A ATF
Mobil Delvac 1
...and a long list for ZF-Hurth approved fluids that Dave G posted in April 2025.

We are still having slippage issues so I am going to drain whatever transmission fluid was added by our local boat yard to "top it off," and I'll measure how much fluid was added to see if it was over-filled. Then I'll inspect the fluid for heat damage, smell, water, or emulsification, and replace it with a fresh batch of ATF using the excellent guidance provided on this site. From the posts on this site and recommendations of others at our yacht club, I think I will start with Valvoline Dextron/Mercon trans fluid because we have a quart of it on hand.

However, if others have a favorite brand that I can buy on Amazon or in an auto parts store, please share your thoughts because if the above doesn't work, I will replace it with something else and try again....before taking the plunge and replacing the transmission.

Thanks!

 

HerbertFriedman

Sustaining Member
I just changed the transmission fluid in my 1987 E34 Hurth transmission. The manual called for DEXRON III but that is hard to find anymore. I used Valvoline DEX/MERC Automatic Transmission Fluid, Recommended for all DEXRON-III. Works fine
 

Pete the Cat

Sustaining Member
I hope this is not off topic, but with all the Hurth transmissions, I always wonder how many of them are compromised or destroyed by leaving them in forward when sailing briskly? For whatever design reason--and there must have been some engineer somewhere who advised this, the Hurth manuals for them specifically advise against leaving them in forward. They say the transmissions should be in neutral or reverse and that you are on your own if you have a feathering or folding prop. Just a thought. I am sure this has been addressed previously, but might be worthy of a reminder.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Our Universal manual did indeed advise "locking" the shaft by leaving the trans in reverse while sailing. From old discussions here and from comments from our mechanic, this did indeed have something to do with lubrication, or lack of it, of the rotating parts.

FWIW a Folding prop should not normally attempt to rotate when under sail because the blades are, well, folded. Of course the older generation (not geared) ones would let the blade on the bottom fall down and impede water flow when sailing in light air. I have a few friends that recall being the "kid" on the crew tasked with diving and rubber-banding the folding prop right after shutting down the engine --- and then diving again to pull the band off after crossing the finish line.

Which is to sort of reference other reasons why feathering props were well-received by the racing community, and, everyone else! :)

And then, there's noise. When we leave the trans in neutral while under sail, the transmission noise is irritating as heck.

After all, it's not good to have Irritated Vikings on board ! :esad:
 

Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
Some valuable information resides in Bert's post. Suspect folding prop questions morph into transmission exploration:
 
Last edited:

bertboyer

Member III
Suspect folding prop questions morph into transmission exploration:
Indeed that has been the case with our issue. We changed the transmission fluid twice and still iffy engagement in forward. The clunking sound kept us coming back to the transmission. We detached the cable from the transmission mounted lever to see if that would improve the throw of the lever and ultimately engagement in forward and it didn't help. We then reviewed the underwater videos that started this post and we hear the clunking sound when the diver put his underwater camera on a stick to monitor engagement...or lack thereof.

In the end, we think the prop is fine and the Hurth HBW-50 transmission is the problem, so we have started the journey of transmission replacement. My mechanical engineer son thinks we (HE) can do the job, but it's been a slow process of careful discovery. For example, to remove the transmission, we believe we have to remove the bell housing, which means removing the engine mounts and moving the engine forward a bit...all while the boat is in the slip. Not trivial, but he is undeterred. Hope to start that process next week.

Our marine surveyor and other sailing friends suggested that the best replacement is the Twin Disc TMC-40 transmission. In a very helpful coincidence, a neighboring boat owner 2 slips away from ours did the same replacement and posted an incredibly detailed account of the process:
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/t...nd-transmission-on-a-catalina-310.1249943008/
So we are learning from his experiences.

Meanwhile, while waiting for my son's availability to return to the boat project, I am enjoying Christian's Long voyage home autobiography! :cool:
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Our marine surveyor and other sailing friends suggested that the best replacement is the Twin Disc TMC-40 transmission. In a very helpful coincidence, a neighboring boat owner 2 slips away from ours did the same replacement and posted an incredibly detailed account of the process:
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/t...nd-transmission-on-a-catalina-310.1249943008/
So we are learning from his experiences.
Thanks for the link! Great writeup. Back to your Olson, you might want to look again at the custom aluminum flat-bar risers that Tom B machined to raise our engine up and put the mount studs in the correct position, compared to the spacers that EY put under the mounts. Pictured in my blog and you can drop by for another look anytime.
My intuition is that the Olson bed log molding was designed for a Yanmar diesel, and the mounts were attached differently to their block design. (Just as EY was installing Universal diesels routinely, Pacific Boats was using mostly/all Yanmar diesels.)
 

bertboyer

Member III
you might want to look again at the custom aluminum flat-bar risers that Tom B machined
Hi Loren,
Thanks for the lead. I enjoyed a re-review of some of your blog posts and will return to them time and again after I get this transmission project done. Unfortunately, I can't find the custom risers you refer to above. Only found the winch risers. Can you please point me/us to the correct blog post? Thanks!
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
One of the pix in this entry shows the alum. bar under each side. This raised both "bed logs" up to where they probably should have been all along,

Also, a photo in this entry. I did not take nearly enough pictures!
 
Top