injectadeck - Thoughts and Experiences

wynkoop

Member III
If folks have noted my postings here Silver Maiden is getting lots of work done to her. Work that has been deferred due to either lack of time, or money. Well money is tight now with me being out of work due to Covid-19 shutdowns, but I do have time.

One of the things that has to be fixed soon is the very bad delamination of the cabin top. It visibly flexes when I walk on the port side. Tapping on it leads me to believe it is a void for most of the length. I could cut the cabin top off clean it out and build a new section up with strips of plywood to follow the curve required as one other on here has done, but that is time consuming, takes the boat out of operation for a long time and might not be the best way for me to learn fiberglass work.

I found a product called injectadeck which claims to fill the voids of the rotted core, seal things up and give solid decks again. In speaking to the fellow who makes the product he says the compressive strength is between 200 and 400 PSI depending on how much water is in the core. Less water equals a denser and stronger closed cell foam.

It seems like I could do an injectadeck treatment in an afternoon and have the gelcoat patched and painted where the injection sights are the next afternoon.

Has anyone used this product? Does anyone have any thoughts on the product?
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
I haven't used it but I've heard about it.

It does seem a very attractive alternative to what is otherwise a big job.
 

trickdhat

Member III
Blogs Author
I don't have any experience with Injectadeck, but I did repair some rotten core in my previous boat. After seeing what the core looked like, I don't see how anything short of completely replacing the damaged core would have fixed the problem. If you live in an area that freezes, any amount of moisture trapped in the core will just create more delamination in the future. It's a big job, but its doable by any ambitious DIY inclined person.
 

bigd14

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Beware of quick fixes! I found that the moisture travels quite far. So there is saturated but “sound” material considerably further away than expected by where it feels and sounds soft. I agree with trickdhat that the remaining moisture will continue to cause problems. You or a future owner may have to then remove all the injected material if and when it fails to cure the problem. It’s a messy job but the satisfaction of getting all the mushy and soon to be mushy core out of there and removing the spring from the decks is well worth it IMHO. The first cut is the hardest but it gets easier to wrap your head around it!

Raka epoxy is cheaper than West, balsa core from Jamestown Distributors, 1708 biaxial fiberglass from various internet sources or Jamestown, mixing supplies, fumed silica, milled fiberglass and fairing micro balloons in bulk from various internet sources (avoid marine stores). Get a big box of chip brushes and mixing sticks. Save your yoghurt tubs for mixing epoxy. They can be reused by letting the epoxy cure then pulling it out.

The trick I found is to add some milled fiberglass to the thickened epoxy to prevent cracking (epoxy with just fumed silica is brittle, add the milled fiberglass and it’s bomber). I would guess it will cost you twice the cost of the injectadeck base system ($300) to get all the materials you need.

Also a Fein Multimaster or equivalent for the demolition is super helpful. And I made a bunch of custom tools out of screwdrivers etc to get core out from the edges where you leave a flange to tie the deck together again. Or you can use an angle grinder.

Here is an account of all the gory details:

 

1911tex

Member III
Here is a do-it-yourself MUCH exaggerated example of using 2-part foam:


Perhaps using a product like this which can save you $$ ? I am not saying this is the best way, only a viable alternative:

 
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p.gazibara

Member III
I had to fix two soft spots after we left the boat in Tahiti for 4 months in the rainy season.

The cabintop spot had actually cracked the fiberglass below and it was impossible to see because of the fiberglass headliner. I’m not sure how or when it happened, but I was glad that I removed the soft core and could do a proper fiberglass repair prior to adding the new core and glassing in the top. Even then I was able to do it over the course of a couple days. It’s really not as big of a project as you might think. Planning the steps out in accordance to the weather is key. Peel ply is pretty great.

The other spot was in the deck aft of the chain plate. I probably could have injected some sort of resin in that spot, but I would never have known the difference.

I have another spot that has become soft just aft of the traveler in the cockpit seat, I am a little hesitant to use injectables due to the high load but maybe its just as strong and will make life easier. I have removed the headliner now and can see that the inside fiberglass layer is intact.

I’m curious to see your result. It will be a couple weeks before I get to that project.

-P
 

wynkoop

Member III
I am not attacking the cabin top until she is swimming again and in her new home. Got word from West Marine that the hose I need for the stuffing box is delayed an unknown time. I also ordered at the same time from the UK. UK chandler says it will ship tomorrow.

Is it possible to easily remove the headliner in the E-27? If so I might do that to see if I can get a better handle on the situation.
 

1911tex

Member III
Injectadeck is 12lb density. I wonder if 6lb would do well enough?
I googled and found this thread:
 

p.gazibara

Member III
I am not attacking the cabin top until she is swimming again and in her new home. Got word from West Marine that the hose I need for the stuffing box is delayed an unknown time. I also ordered at the same time from the UK. UK chandler says it will ship tomorrow.

Is it possible to easily remove the headliner in the E-27? If so I might do that to see if I can get a better handle on the situation.
I just removed the glass headliner in Cinderella, not sure if yours is the same but it was a huge job.
 

wynkoop

Member III
Thanks for the pointer to that thread. It is 7 years old, but I have not found much else myself. I have been looking at this injectadeck for about 9 months. I have found a thread on a whaler board about doing the same thing on boston whalers using gorilla glue! The guy rebuilds whalers by drilling and injecting gorilla glue.
 

garryh

Member III
"I don't have any experience with Injectadeck, but I did repair some rotten core in my previous boat. After seeing what the core looked like, I don't see how anything short of completely replacing the damaged core would have fixed the problem. If you live in an area that freezes, any amount of moisture trapped in the core will just create more delamination in the future. "
...absolutely agree. No miracle cure for this. An ugly job but just has to be done properly or you will continue to have delam problems.
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
Here are two deck-recoring project discussions in one thread at the Moyer A4 Forum. One was mine.


I've done four of these projects over the years on my boat - there simply aren't any shortcuts, and it isn't that difficult a job, just messy. I doubt anyone who has done this properly once and seen the condition of a rotted/saturated/failing balsa core would consider an injection-based solution for their next project.
 

wynkoop

Member III
Knowing there is an experienced Ericsson owner right her in NYC might makes me less skidish to cut open my deck, but having never done any fiberglass work before and not knowing how to fix the seems made by the saw so they look pretty does intimidate me a bit.
 

1911tex

Member III
My question is, once the cut-out portion of the deck is made and internal repairs completed, putting back the cut-out portion of the deck...what do you use to mend the cut-out edges to blend in with the rest of the deck so it does not look like a stitched patch??
 

garryh

Member III
"I doubt anyone who has done this properly once and seen the condition of a rotted/saturated/failing balsa core would consider an injection-based solution for their next project"
So true... this is my side deck at the turn of the combing at the front end of the cockpit. The balsa was soaked and mush. The plywood was soaked and slimey. I simply cannot fathom how this injecta project can claim to avoid excavating all this muck and drying it out the laminate. How can anything stick to wet muck..? Just a bad idea.
And as soaked and slimey as the plywood was, what an absolute bear to remove. Took every tool and every bit of ingenuity I had to get it all out; especially when it disappears in to the cavity between the two moulds; and then becomes the (totally rotted to dust) base for the cubbies.
 

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garryh

Member III
"My question is, once the cut-out portion of the deck is made and internal repairs completed, putting back the cut-out portion of the deck...what do you use to mend the cut-out edges to blend in with the rest of the deck so it does not look like a stitched patch?? "
That my dear Watson...... : ) In a few words, it will always look like a repair unless you are very very good. If it is a large area, you are just best removing ALL the non-skid and doing kiwi grip or something like it over the entire area. If the area(s) is small, you can painstakingly try to copy the non-skid pattern with chisels/awl/etc etc; or even use a flexible mould (eg. Gibco) and roll out gel on top of the repair to match existing. But very difficult, almost impossible to match perfectly.
 
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