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Just bought my first boat: E26-2 - Electric bilge pump, bow anchor roller and other questions.

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
There is no way I would go thru Hell Gate without a powerful engine and I would never rely on sails.

You need to study the tides and not get them wrong, which many have done, including me. Currents run 4-5 knots. There are sharp bends and I have had tugboats pass within 50 feet, intentionally it seemed, just to annoy the yachties. Standing waves, yeah. And I know, or used to know, a guy who lost his engine on the East River on the Fourth of July and set off all his flares. You can imagine how much help came.

The passage from New Yokr Harbor to the Sound can be easy and pleasant and it's always unforgettably scenic, but every skipper plans it carefully and opens a beer when it's over.

 

acubria

Member II
thanks Roger,
A thermometer is a great idea!
I am in the process of recruiting a first mate who has done this route several times. Planning on getting to Hells Gate right at high tide. And many buckets.
The bilge pump looks really new and I did pump some water out at one point.
thanks
 

Roger Janeway

Member II
. . . The boat is really dry. [A] very tiny bit of water gets in I think through the anchor locker or somewhere near the bow and deposits on a triangular mini bilge all the way in the front of the V-berth.

I noticed the same small leak only after I had my boat for two years and finally decided to spend more time in the foc's'le. (This illustrates the downside to the philosophy of "just sail and have fun and discover your problems as you go along".) To my surprise, that forward triangular compartment was full of clean fresh water! My first thought was that long ago, someone put some beers on ice in there for a cruise, and never emptied the compartment.

It's meant to be a storage locker, not a bilge. Here in Southern California, it could easily have taken 5 years of rain and deck washing to fill it.

I doubt that the water comes in from the anchor locker. You can test that easily just by filling up the anchor locker with water and checking that it all quickly drains out of the small holes in the bow. My anchor locker is not cracked and I have the same minor leak that you do.

If anyone has an insight into what to look for, Arturo and I sure would appreciate it.

The problem is that so little water leaks in there that it isn't clearly worth the trouble of detaching, inspecting, and reattaching the deck hardware that is a potential suspect (for example, the bow pulpit stanchions?) to try to stem the trickle. And the zipper on the foc's'le headliner is frozen despite multiple applications of T-9 so I can't examine the underside of the deck without ripping into that.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
I noticed the same small leak only after I had my boat for two years and finally decided to spend more time in the foc's'le. (This illustrates the downside to the philosophy of "just sail and have fun and discover your problems as you go along".) To my surprise, that forward triangular compartment was full of clean fresh water! My first thought was that long ago, someone put some beers on ice in there for a cruise, and never emptied the compartment.

It's meant to be a storage locker, not a bilge. Here in Southern California, it could easily have taken 5 years of rain and deck washing to fill it.

I doubt that the water comes in from the anchor locker. You can test that easily just by filling up the anchor locker with water and checking that it all quickly drains out of the small holes in the bow. My anchor locker is not cracked and I have the same minor leak that you do.

If anyone has an insight into what to look for, Arturo and I sure would appreciate it.

The problem is that so little water leaks in there that it isn't clearly worth the trouble of detaching, inspecting, and reattaching the deck hardware that is a potential suspect (for example, the bow pulpit stanchions?) to try to stem the trickle. And the zipper on the foc's'le headliner is frozen despite multiple applications of T-9 so I can't examine the underside of the deck without ripping into that.
Well, I'm almost certain I can tell you where the water is coming from. I found water in there as well, and I could tell from a water stain that the previous owner did also and never dealt with it.

The water was coming in from the aft starboard leg of the bow pulpit. The bow pulpit legs, as is true for all of the stanchions on this boat, are in sockets. In the case of the aft starboard leg, the base of the socket is hollow to allow the wiring from the the bow light to run inside the pulpit tubing, through the deck, inside the headliner, and then back to the electrical panel. If you look at how the pulpit leg fits into the socket, you'll see that it's not even close to water tight. This, needless to say, was a supremely stupid way for the factory to have installed this. It had to have leaked from day one.

The way I settled on stopping the leak was to wrap the joint where the pulpit leg goes into the socket with a self-annealing silicone tape. I then put hose clamps over the ends of the tape, top and bottom, to make sure it stayed in place and could not unwrap. The tape should be inspected from time to time, but I have found that it stopped the leak. There may be a better way to do it but this worked for me; it was quick and cheap.

The other issue is that you really need to get access to the hardware underneath the deck that is blocked by the headliner. You mentioned that yours has a zipper. Mine does not. What I did was to cut two round holes of sufficient diameter underneath both aft bow pulpit legs. Due to the foredeck geometry of the E26, I cannot see these holes from inside the main cabin looking forward, or even when I poke my head into the vee berth to get something. The only way I could ever see them is if I were in the berth, on my back, with my head at the bow. When I originally cut the holes I figured I'd make a way to cover them with matching material, but when it became apparent I couldn't even see the holes I didn't bother. Plus, with it open, any leaks will be very apparent. If I keep the boat long-term I want to replace the headliner with removable panels anyway.

Another way to do it would be to carefully remove the headliner trim, remove the staples, peel back the headliner, rebed the hardware, and then put it back together. There are posts on this forum about removing and reattaching the headliner. And I would definitely go to that trouble if cutting a hole in the liner would be visible. But in the case of the two holes in question, they really are not, and to me having ready access to that hardware is more important.

But in your case, you have a zipper up there. If I were you, I'd repair the zipper so you can get at that hardware. (There are posts on the forum about how to repair these zippers, so some of the EYO gurus here can advise you on that.) The hardware really needs to be rebedded periodically. One downside to a headliner is that it can in certain instances (such as this one) block access to hardware, which then discourages proper maintenance. This can become a structural concern if you rot out your deck core.

While I'm on the subject, another place where the liner blocks access to stanchion bolts on the E26 is on the port side, just aft of the partial bulkhead that divides the galley from the port settee. Here again, I cut an access hole into the outboard side of headliner just aft of the bulkhead and above the top of the storage cabinet I have there. (There is not quite 4" of space between the top of that galley cabinet and the underside of the headliner.) And here again, the hole is hidden from view--at least on my boat--so I again did not concern myself with covering it. The stanchion bolts just forward of that bulkhead are accessible because the headliner above the port settee is zippered and the zipper runs the full length from that partial bulkhead all the way to the aft side of the port vee berth bulkhead (above the hanging locker).

On the other hand, the starboard side liner has a zipper that runs all the way from the main bulkhead to the stern, so it does not suffer from these access issues.

Hope this helps,
Alan

(P.S. I'm writing this from Fourth of July Cove at Catalina, where the rain has just started up again and the wind is howling. Because it's a westerly this cove is nice and secure. I just finished my hot chocolate and am enjoying listening to the wind and the rain. I completed a good day of work on the laptop and I'm going to reward myself by pulling out my Kindle and getting back to reading Crime and Punishment. It is a bit cold over here but nothing a sweatshirt won't handle. I was going to sail home Tuesday but thought better of it after looking at the weather conditions, especially the sea state. So I decided to just hunker down until Friday. Moorings are cheap here this time of year--pay two, get 5 free. I've got this little Ericson tricked out with everything I need. Our baby Ericsons are neat little cruisers. Life is good.)
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
 

acubria

Member II
I noticed the same small leak only after I had my boat for two years and finally decided to spend more time in the foc's'le. (This illustrates the downside to the philosophy of "just sail and have fun and discover your problems as you go along".) To my surprise, that forward triangular compartment was full of clean fresh water! My first thought was that long ago, someone put some beers on ice in there for a cruise, and never emptied the compartment.

It's meant to be a storage locker, not a bilge. Here in Southern California, it could easily have taken 5 years of rain and deck washing to fill it.

I doubt that the water comes in from the anchor locker. You can test that easily just by filling up the anchor locker with water and checking that it all quickly drains out of the small holes in the bow. My anchor locker is not cracked and I have the same minor leak that you do.

If anyone has an insight into what to look for, Arturo and I sure would appreciate it.

The problem is that so little water leaks in there that it isn't clearly worth the trouble of detaching, inspecting, and reattaching the deck hardware that is a potential suspect (for example, the bow pulpit stanchions?) to try to stem the trickle. And the zipper on the foc's'le headliner is frozen despite multiple applications of T-9 so I can't examine the underside of the deck without ripping into that.
Yes, water provably comes from a stanchion I would think. Detaching that triangular pice of wood all the way at the front of the v-berth looks like drilling out teak plugs , etc. maybe will do it a day that I am really bored ! Not a priority, but I see the bottom corner of the wood is wet and I don’t like that at all.
 

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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Yes, water provably comes from a stanchion I would think. Detaching that triangular pice of wood all the way at the front of the v-berth looks like drilling out teak plugs , etc. maybe will do it a day that I am really bored ! Not a priority, but I see the bottom corner of the wood is wet and I don’t like that at all.
I have removed tens of teak plugs from trim in our boat. This was for gaining access to the staples holding the vinyl headliner, and, similar to your boat just getting to the panel beneath. There is a good chance that the panel itself is tabbed into place, but you will not know until the trim is removed.
Since fine woodworking is not, as they say, my 'forte' I have opted to leave the plugs out. We have cleaned and varnished all of the trims, and no one seems to even notice the presence of shiny SS screws. Someday, if I get a round to it, I might replace all of the screws with bronze, so that as it darkens it becomes semi invisible.

If you need access to the area forward of the panel, you can cut a center section out, carefully and then trim with new teak battens and always have easy access in the future. I admit to finding this sort of modification to be a little traumatic, unlike Martin who could almost do this work in his sleep! :)

Anyhow, keep the photos and observations coming. Other owners here will provide advice.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Yes, water provably comes from a stanchion I would think. Detaching that triangular pice of wood all the way at the front of the v-berth looks like drilling out teak plugs , etc. maybe will do it a day that I am really bored ! Not a priority, but I see the bottom corner of the wood is wet and I don’t like that at all.
Regarding the triangular teak piece at the forward end of the vee berth: The water staining at the base of it will almost certainly come from one of two possible sources. One is that some of the water from the pulpit leak could migrate there and pool at the base of it, depending on the trim of your particular boat. But a more likely source (or at least a source that caused it in my case before I fixed it) is from the top of the anchor locker pan.

If you open your anchor locker hatch, you'll see that this locker is a molded fiberglass pan with a lip that runs around its perimeter. The pan is caulked in place and also has a series of screws spaced around the perimeter of this lip to secure it. Yours may or may not have some fiberglass tape over the joint. Mine did.

If the pan is in need of rebedding then water can migrate from underneath that lip and down the aft face of the pan and collect right at the point of the vee. The fix is to recaulk the pan.

Randy Shelman, who has been mentioned at various points in this thread, had posted some great pictures of when he removed the pan altogether in order to expand the size of his anchor locker. I have those pictures somewhere on my computer, but I'll be darned if I can find them just now. They may be lurking here somewhere on the site (or you could email him and ask for them). If I find them on my computer I'll repost them.

The molded anchor locker also has a short drain hose that runs from the bottom of it to a small thru hull on the starboard side of the hull, which you've no doubt noticed. Just thinking about it, it seems that perhaps if the fitting on the bottom of the pan leaked, that could also get water on the underside of the pan and then to that wooden triangular bulkhead piece.

Personally, I don't think I'd bother removing the wooden piece. Just stop the leak so it doesn't continue to let water migrate there, which will also get the tip of your vee berth cushions wet. Realize that this water staining is low enough that you probably can't see it when the cushions are in place anyway, though perhaps you could touch it up a bit, in place, if it really bothers you. Realize, too, that there is nothing in front of that wooden bulkhead other than the aft face of the molded anchor pan. So there would be no reason to put in some kind of door or access port or what have you.

By the way: The molded anchor locker pan has to come out to access the underside of the forward bow pulpit legs as well as the bow stem fitting nuts. As I said, my pan had fiberglass tape over the joint so a cut was made through the tape so I could remove the pan. This allowed me to recaulk the forward bow pulpit legs. I did not replace the fiberglass tape; it is now held on simply by the caulking and the screws. This allows for easy removal should additional leaks or what have you arise.

P.S. It might be best to separate out the different topics being discussed here into separate threads. This might make it easier for others to locate what they want in the future.
 
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KS Dave

Dastardly Villain
Blogs Author
Artururo - scan down in this thread from a couple years ago - more discussion of this problem (I think what Alan was referring to). This is where Randall mentions how he fixed his:
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Artururo - scan down in this thread from a couple years ago - more discussion of this problem (I think what Alan was referring to). This is where Randall mentions how he fixed his:
Bingo! You found it!
 

Roger Janeway

Member II
. . . I don't think I'd bother removing the wooden piece. . . . . Realize, too, that there is nothing in front of that wooden bulkhead other than the aft face of the molded anchor pan. So there would be no reason to put in some kind of door or access port or what have you.
Arturo, I agree with Alan on this. When I was searching for the source of the leak, I removed enough of the small screws holding that triangular piece of teak veneer in place to peer behind it, thinking I'd see fiberglass, either the hull or at least the outside of the anchor locker. Instead, on my early 1986 model, there's a plywood wall with no obvious way to remove it.

On Alan's idea to separate the different topics being discussed here into separate threads, how about "forepeak leak" for this subject?
 
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