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Lazyjack Rigging Design

Merrimist

Hammy, 'Merrimist' E38 in sunny Bda
I would like to ask about light spectra lazy jacks, specifically the plan of the lines, the current system onboard Merrimist is very tired and does not work so well, renewal or replacing and these kind of easy to do upgrades I like to do myself, can anyone forward a plan of or pics as I have checked and am not keen on West Marine or other large marine supplier kits, although they seem to be reasonably priced. I am of the opinion and like that lazy jacks will be moved forward to the mast for hoisting and sailing, prevents battens being caught when hoisting single handed, or anytime now I give it a moments thought. Comments and plans welcomed.

Happy sailing.

Hammy, saving pennies, crewing SY Artemis in the Caribbean.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
lazyjacks 4.jpg
Click on thumbnails to make them larger

My new lazyjacks were installed by a rigger but would present no problem for any of us to do.

Spectra is slippery, so stainless eye-splice thimbles replace need for blocks.

The top attachment is about 6" outboard on the top spreader, rather than to the mast. This allows a wider geometry.

Note that the initial section is a passive hanger line.

lazyjack 1.jpg

The attachments to the boom are on the sides of the boom. The rigger preferred one attachment point on the bottom of the boom which both sides could share, so that's an option.

The "V"s have about equal base lengths on the boom. Maybe the outer "V" has a somewhat longer base. How wide that "V" is affects the hoist of the mainsail, especially with full-length battens, which tend to foul on it. The geometry of the "V" lines should be tested before made permanent so the right personal compromise is obtained.

lazyjacks 3.jpg

The "hoist" line of the jacklines needs to be long enough to permit the entire assembly to be pulled forward ("furled") and hooked to the mast when out of use.

lazyjack 2.jpg

A standard sail cover can be used if the lazyjacks are "furled". If they are to be deployed all the time, the sail cover needs slots to acommodate them, which I have found to make putting cover on and off a chore.

I have become a big fan of this rig. The lines are hard to see and therefore unobtrusive. I never change the tension on the lazyjacks, which is quite taut, when raising or lowering sail or when putting the cover on.

jacklines 5.JPG
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
As I'm understanding it, the under-boom/retractable design needs some sort of line-keeper hardware under the boom to capture the lines as they loop under the boom and stop them sliding along the boom (or are the mainsheet block hangers providing this service?). If there is dedicated hardware under the boom, the lines would have to easily unhook from it when bringing the system forward to the mast for stowing while underway with the mainsail hoisted.
What sort of line-keeper hardware is recommended?
I have permanently-deployed lazyjacks that are made of thin vinyl-covered wire. I'm thinking about replacing them - perhaps with a retractable system.
I see a trade-off: extra hoist line needed (and cleat to tie off at mast) for the retractable system, and potential for noise and wear on the mast if not electing to hang the system from the spreaders vs. the hassle of having slots in the sail cover for permanently rigger lazyjacks, and possible chafing of the mainsail over long-term use.
 
Last edited:

fool

Member III
As I'm understanding it, the under-boom/retractable design needs some sort of line-keeper hardware under the boom to capture the lines as they loop under the boom and stop them sliding along the boom (or are the mainsheet block hangers providing this service?). If there is dedicated hardware under the boom, the lines would have to easily unhook from it when bringing the system forward to the mast for stowing while underway with the mainsail hoisted.
What sort of line-keeper hardware is recommended?

I know this thread is about self design and installation. I opted for the Jiffy Jax kit with self installation; (a.) because I figured by the time I corrected all my mistakes and took the time to splice every line to a ring or pad eye, I'd (b.) come out ahead in the long run. I'm happy with their customer service and my self installed results and have almost stopped second guessing the decision.

http://jiffyjax.com/photos.html

None the less, the photos on the site are helpful for anyone looking to tackle a lazy jack system. (Pick out the puns as you see fit...)

Cheers,

Max
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
needs some sort of line-keeper hardware under the boom to capture the lines as they loop under the boom and stop them sliding along the boom

The lines are permanently attached to the boom by eye straps. When drawn forward for stowage, tension holds them along the boom. ...If I understand the question correctly.
 

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Eye straps and extra line thoguhts

needs some sort of line-keeper hardware under the boom to capture the lines as they loop under the boom and stop them sliding along the boom

The lines are permanently attached to the boom by eye straps. When drawn forward for stowage, tension holds them along the boom. ...If I understand the question correctly.

Yes, simple Eye straps on the bottom of the boom.
Or
You can make the same system, if your boom has a sail slot in it, and use a slot slide, and two screws in the slot to hold the slides in position. This catches the sail more on the top of the boom, but it really doesn't seem to matter.

For holding the lazy jacks forward when not deployed I use the reefing horns. When you go to reef you use the horns, and the lazy jacks.

The extra line to hoist time isn't really all that much. The difference between the two positions of the hoist line is generally less than 10 feet in most cases.

Not having the lazy jacks in the way when hoisting the sail is wonderful. You only have the advantages of the lazy jacks when you need them, and don't have the disadvantage when trying to hoist the sail.

Oh and don't worry about splicing if it worries you, just seize them together instead of splicing, only takes a few minutes with a sail palm and some thread.
Guy
:)
 
Last edited:

nquigley

Sustaining Member
needs some sort of line-keeper hardware under the boom to capture the lines as they loop under the boom and stop them sliding along the boom
The lines are permanently attached to the boom by eye straps. When drawn forward for stowage, tension holds them along the boom. ...If I understand the question correctly.
Oh - I get it now. The 4th and 5th pics at this link cleared that up for me:
http://jiffyjax.com/photos.html
Looks like i can use my existing L-J eye-strap boom anchor points in a retractable system
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
A few more notes from my own experience:

--Don't order a new sail cover until experimenting with leaving the lazyjacks there all the time, or retracting them.
There are benefits to each option that become clear only after some experience.

--If new sails are involved, bear in mind that they won't stack like old ones do. Material is stiff, and full-length battens change things. In other words, the old cover won't fit, especially with a new Tides sail track.

I chose slots in the cover so the lazyjacks could remain in place. I prefer to leave them in place all the time, and was willing to do the extra hassle with the cover.

But it turns out that I need gaskets (sail ties) anyhow, to shape and somewhat compress the flaked sail before the sail cover goes on. This is probably a factor of my 9.3 oz. Dacron main, which is stiff and flakes high.

If you will be using gaskets anyhow, there is no benefit to slots in the sail cover.
 

Starduff

Member II
Extra Line Thoughts

Yes, simple Eye straps on the bottom of the boom.
Or
You can make the same system, if your boom has a sail slot in it, and use a slot slide, and two screws in the slot to hold the slides in position. This catches the sail more on the top of the boom, but it really doesn't seem to matter.

For holding the lazy jacks forward when not deployed I use the reefing horns. When you go to reef you use the horns, and the lazy jacks.

The extra line to hoist time isn't really all that much. The difference between the two positions of the hoist line is generally less than 10 feet in most cases.

Not having the lazy jacks in the way when hoisting the sail is wonderful. You only have the advantages of the lazy jacks when you need them, and don't have the disadvantage when trying to hoist the sail.

Oh and don't worry about splicing if it worries you, just seize them together instead of splicing, only takes a few minutes with a sail palm and some thread.
Guy
:)

Hi Guy,

When storing the boat on the hard for winter, I loosen the lazy jacks and store them up on the horns. I like the idea of not having the lazy jacks in the way when hoisting the sail. How do you keep the main from flopping over the boom? am I missing something?

Polonius
E-28
 

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Flopping over the boom?

I am not quite sure I understand your question.

The sail sits on top of the boom pretty much no matter what you do. Once you have the sail down in the lazy jacks you tie it down with normal sail gaskets, or sail ties if you will. Then douse the lazy jacks and put the sail cover on.

Guy
:)
 

Teranodon

Member III
Yes, simple Eye straps on the bottom of the boom.


Guy,

That's an excellent article, and I used it when ordering line and hardware for my boat, to be installed when spring settles in. One thing is not clear to me, however: do the lines loop continuously around the bottom of the boom, moving freely through the eye straps and self-adjusting port/starboard? Or are they attached to the eye straps with knots, i.e., separate segments for port and starboard? Or is this a dumb question? Please advise. Thanks.
 

Starduff

Member II
Flopping Over The Boom

I am not quite sure I understand your question.

The sail sits on top of the boom pretty much no matter what you do. Once you have the sail down in the lazy jacks you tie it down with normal sail gaskets, or sail ties if you will. Then douse the lazy jacks and put the sail cover on.

Guy
:)

I am sorry. I must have misunderstood your earlier reply. I thought you talking about raising the main after you stored the lazy jacks forward. so, I was wondering how to prevent the main from flopping over once the sail ties were removed ( the lazy jacks having already been stored forward). Thus my question.
it wouldn't have been the first time I learned something new.

Polonius
E-28
 

K2MSmith

Sustaining Member
A few more notes from my own experience:

--Don't order a new sail cover until experimenting with leaving the lazyjacks there all the time, or retracting them.
There are benefits to each option that become clear only after some experience.

--If new sails are involved, bear in mind that they won't stack like old ones do. Material is stiff, and full-length battens change things. In other words, the old cover won't fit, especially with a new Tides sail track.

I chose slots in the cover so the lazyjacks could remain in place. I prefer to leave them in place all the time, and was willing to do the extra hassle with the cover.

But it turns out that I need gaskets (sail ties) anyhow, to shape and somewhat compress the flaked sail before the sail cover goes on. This is probably a factor of my 9.3 oz. Dacron main, which is stiff and flakes high.

If you will be using gaskets anyhow, there is no benefit to slots in the sail cover.

So if I understand correctly, since you have to use sail ties anyway, you could have gotten away with standard sail cover but then , you would have to retract the jacks to the mast ?
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
The whole lazy jacks head-scratcher is result of genuine ambiguity as to which suits each of us best. At bottom, there is no right answer--many of us thought it through and still don;t know if some other rig is better. Regarding the question at hand--

In my case, the need for sail ties is entirely the result of a very stiff 9.3 oz. sail. Such a main won't lie peacefully on a boom. To tame the folds sail ties are required, or any sail cover looks lumpy and lubberly. This is true of slotted or standard sail covers, although maybe not of stack packs. Why such a heavy sail? Offshore is hard on sails, especially for singlehanders. . Hal Roth bought a 10 oz no-batten mainsail and I helped him install it in Annapolis. He was excited, and then the thing wouldn;t fold worth a darnn and he realized the battles he would face every time he lowered it.

With most sails, yes, if you plan to retract the lazy jacks to the mast, a standard cover works fine.

And then I read (above) that the retracted lines slap the mast unless tied off, and you have to set up the lines before every douse, and other realities of that system.

In the end, though, I will not be without lazy jacks on a cruising boat again. Big help when reefing, nobody has to jump on the cabin house when lowering.

But of course most crews like wrastling sails and putting on sail ties, it is man work, and they resent sitting around with nothing to do while I brag up the world from behind the helm.
 

Parrothead

Member III
Here is the system I have. It collapses to the mast and boom, no mast slap because the spreader blocks are away from the mast, boom lines attach to bails already present, raise and collapse by cleats on the boom's inboard end, port and stbd. I raise it after hoisting the main, collapse it just before putting on the conventional sail cover. It works well for me because I prefer hoisting, dousing and reefing the main at the mast rather than the cockpit.
 

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K2MSmith

Sustaining Member
The whole lazy jacks head-scratcher is result of genuine ambiguity as to which suits each of us best. At bottom, there is no right answer--many of us thought it through and still don;t know if some other rig is better. Regarding the question at hand--

In my case, the need for sail ties is entirely the result of a very stiff 9.3 oz. sail. Such a main won't lie peacefully on a boom. To tame the folds sail ties are required, or any sail cover looks lumpy and lubberly. This is true of slotted or standard sail covers, although maybe not of stack packs. Why such a heavy sail? Offshore is hard on sails, especially for singlehanders. . Hal Roth bought a 10 oz no-batten mainsail and I helped him install it in Annapolis. He was excited, and then the thing wouldn;t fold worth a darnn and he realized the battles he would face every time he lowered it.

With most sails, yes, if you plan to retract the lazy jacks to the mast, a standard cover works fine.

And then I read (above) that the retracted lines slap the mast unless tied off, and you have to set up the lines before every douse, and other realities of that system.

In the end, though, I will not be without lazy jacks on a cruising boat again. Big help when reefing, nobody has to jump on the cabin house when lowering.

But of course most crews like wrastling sails and putting on sail ties, it is man work, and they resent sitting around with nothing to do while I brag up the world from behind the helm.
I spoke to a rigger today in the Bay Area and he spent quite of time explaining the lazy jack system he likes to use . It was a bit difficult to understand on the phone ( I need pictures) but it is basically a two control line system. I’m going to have him come over to my slip and get an estimate. I also have running backstays so we are going to look at the rig and see what needs some tuning / singlehanded taming . I want to at least put in a backstay strap in as a backup.
 

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
K2M,

I used Guy Stevens Good Old Boat system (from post #3) on my E33 and I am mostly happy with it. I left the thimbles out which wasn’t wise. I experience some line on one or two legs of the lazy jack twisting after many hoists and douses. Maybe that wouldn’t happen if I go back and add the thimbles.....I have only spiced eyes So the line (double braid) doesn’t slide well. When the line becomes twisted I have to untie the legs beneath the boom and get the twists out. It’s no big deal. It happens once or twice per season.
 

David Grimm

E38-200
View attachment 23797
Click on thumbnails to make them larger

My new lazyjacks were installed by a rigger but would present no problem for any of us to do.

Spectra is slippery, so stainless eye-splice thimbles replace need for blocks.

The top attachment is about 6" outboard on the top spreader, rather than to the mast. This allows a wider geometry.

Note that the initial section is a passive hanger line.

View attachment 23794

The attachments to the boom are on the sides of the boom. The rigger preferred one attachment point on the bottom of the boom which both sides could share, so that's an option.

The "V"s have about equal base lengths on the boom. Maybe the outer "V" has a somewhat longer base. How wide that "V" is affects the hoist of the mainsail, especially with full-length battens, which tend to foul on it. The geometry of the "V" lines should be tested before made permanent so the right personal compromise is obtained.

View attachment 23796

The "hoist" line of the jacklines needs to be long enough to permit the entire assembly to be pulled forward ("furled") and hooked to the mast when out of use.

View attachment 23795

A standard sail cover can be used if the lazyjacks are "furled". If they are to be deployed all the time, the sail cover needs slots to acommodate them, which I have found to make putting cover on and off a chore.

I have become a big fan of this rig. The lines are hard to see and therefore unobtrusive. I never change the tension on the lazyjacks, which is quite taut, when raising or lowering sail or when putting the cover on.

View attachment 23798
Christian, What diameter Spectra is sufficient for the 38?
 
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