Minimums for Lake Sailing Instruments

[KS Dave]

Hey there, fellow land-locked sailors. My new-to-me E26-2 pretty much only has a VHF that works (well, it makes noise when I turn it on). The original depth and speed gauges are dead. If there was ever a compass on the bulkhead, it's long gone too. So, only sailing on my small lake in Kansas (~11000 acres), what should I be looking at as minimum equipment? Things like chart plotters, AIS, and radar are obviously a waste.

I grew up sailing dinghies on a MUCH smaller lake. We had telltales on the sail and the wind on our faces. We thought it was quite an upgrade when we got a windvane for the top of the mast. So, this is all new to me.

Appreciate your insights.

 

[Frank Langer]

Hey there, fellow land-locked sailors. My new-to-me E26-2 pretty much only has a VHF that works (well, it makes noise when I turn it on). The original depth and speed gauges are dead. If there was ever a compass on the bulkhead, it's long gone too. So, only sailing on my small lake in Kansas (~11000 acres), what should I be looking at as minimum equipment? Things like chart plotters, AIS, and radar are obviously a waste.

I grew up sailing dinghies on a MUCH smaller lake. We had telltales on the sail and the wind on our faces. We thought it was quite an upgrade when we got a windvane for the top of the mast. So, this is all new to me.

Appreciate your insights.

Hi,
That's a very interesting question! Having sailed on inland lakes and ocean coastal cruising for 26 years or more , I have a few thoughts to get you started. Some people (my adult son, for one) swear that one can sail well by feel of the boat alone and have great sail trim. I still use my sail telltales alot and wouldn't be without them as a double check on what I feel going on with sail trim. A masthead windex also helps, especially if the wind is changing alot. Next I think a depthsounder is important, especially if your lake bottom is uneven, rocky, etc. as you don't want to get grounded, and it helps alot if you anchor out to know what depth you're in and what anchor rode scope you might need. After that it is always interesting to know your speed, though not essential, so a knotmetre or gps is nice. A working handheld VHF radio is helpful if others on the lake, or local rescue authorities have them as well. Of course, the usual lifejackets, flares, horn and other mandated safety equipment is needed. After all that, anything else is luxury and probably unnecessary. Just my thoughts...
Frank

 

[Slick470]

I don't know Perry at all but I sailed for years on Cheney and Tuttle creek with only a windex. The bottom was mostly mud, so as long as you stayed a certain distance from shore as you sailed around you were fine. Occasionally there would be a tree stump or something, but a depth finder wouldn't give you enough notice if it saw it anyway.

When we bought our current boat, it had a handheld VHF, a digital compass, a windex, and an older wind/speed/depth package on it, but only the depth worked properly on the W/S/D package. We sailed that boat on the Chesapeake like that for about 5 years before upgrading to a newer W/S/D package and added an AP, fixed liquid compass, fixed VHF with AIS, and a chartplotter.

A good working VHF is a good bit of safety gear but in reality on a lake, you'd probably get better reaction times with a cell phone. For the rest in order of priority, I'd say windex, then depth, then speed, then wind. Compass is nice to have if you ever need to sail to a heading, but I found for lake sailing there were enough landmarks, even at night with shore lights, that I never really looked at one. Personal preference and all that.

 

[Christian Williams]

I still use the Windex most. I can do with only that if I can see where I'm going.

 

[Filkee]

My electronic wind direction thingy has never worked. Windex all the way. It would be awkward not to have a depth sounder on lake Champlain, though I tend to just stay out of the blue spots on Navionics.

 

[KS Dave]

Thanks for the replies, here. Good to know that my "by feel" sailing education will probably serve me well. I don't want to be reliant on instruments, anyway. So, a couple of follow-ups...

I don't have immediate plans to replace the transducers that are in the hull right now. Should I just coil up the wires and leave them there? Put the plugs in instead? Glass them over when I haul-out this Spring (my least favorite choice)? (at the risk of re-hashing my previous fiberglass holes questions in other threads)

So as not to skew opinions, I didn't mention that this boat came with an uninstalled Raymarine Dragonfly 7PRO - https://www.raymarine.com/dragonfly/dragonfly7pro.html

This device might be more than sufficient for my lake-sailing needs. This should handle depth sufficiently (and might even be nice if I want to fish while I'm anchored). Has anyone used one of these on a sailboat? It comes with a transom mount by default. I think I could rig that up with some sort of cable gland to come out the back so the cabling is out of the way. They make a thru-hull version, too (CPT-70). Is that worth the $270 to make it "more permanent"? Or is it better to keep it simple and go with transom mount unless it just doesn't work well?

Also, my bulkhead is kind of a mess right now. I have the flush-mount kit for this device and a weather cover. Am I well served mounting something like this on the bulkhead, or do I patch up the old instrument holes and put this on a Ram mount that folds out from the inside? I think the PO had the idea to enlarge the holes from the two old instruments and put this there. I'm leaning that direction over buying more mounting equipment and having to do a bunch of glass work, but appreciate anyone who wants to opine.

 

[Christian Williams]

Isn't that Dragonfly a chartplotter, too? If so, perfect. I think transom transducers are for motorboats. A simple through-hull (no hole in hull) sonar would give you depth, water temp and fish, too. Gotta make sure the transducer matches the unit, however.

 

[KS Dave]

Isn't that Dragonfly a chartplotter, too? If so, perfect. I think transom transducers are for motorboats. A simple through-hull (no hole in hull) sonar would give you depth, water temp and fish, too. Gotta make sure the transducer matches the unit, however.

It does have a chartplotter, too. At least, the box says it does. I haven't powered it all up yet.

There doesn't appear to be an in-hull option. Only transom (included) and through-hull ($$$ + hole required). For the through-hull, some mounting instructions I found mention using a dead-rise block to get a level mount if mounting on a part of the hull with a dead rise. Not knowing first-hand what my hull really looks like, I don't what would be entailed.

 

[Christian Williams]

You may well be right about compatibility. But many transducers are made by Airmar, and rebranded, and one may work with your unit. Might mean some phone calls. Here's a typical puck-style transducer some of us are using.

Airmar P79 In-Hull Transducer with Humminbird #9 Plug - 7-Pin - P79-HB | Anchor Express

Airmar P79 In-Hull Transducer w/Humminbird #9 Plug - 7-Pin - P79-HBP79 In-Hull Transducer w/Humminbird #9 Plug - 7-PinOur P79 in-hull transducer easily adjusts to hull dead rise angles up to 22º. This ensures that the beam is vertically oriented to receive echoes, resulting in accurate depth...

www.anchorexpress.com

 

[KS Dave]

You may well be right about compatibility. But many transducers are made by Airmar, and rebranded, and one may work with your unit. Might mean some phone calls. Here's a typical puck-style transducer some of us are using.

Thanks. I've noticed the Airmar consistency. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to be locked-in to one of these two options. Their target market for this device seems to be fisherman on kayaks who can lug around a small 12V battery or small bass boats. Though they mention sailboat mounting with the through-hull, it seems like a harder fit. As cool as it would be to have the sonar...

Part of me wonders if the $270 for the correct transducer would be better spent on a more traditional setup and try and sell this Dragonfly to someone who wants it for a fishing boat.

 

[Tom Metzger]

A couple of thoughts: If there is a chartplotter included the box should have a suffix on the model number: E70320-US, etc. There are four different flavors. W/O the CP it would be E70320. I don't know if inland lakes would be included on the charts unless the lake connects to the outside world. Maybe an outline.

Way back when ~40 years ago I built a depth sounder with a stern mount. I glued it down onto the inside of the hull and it worked fine. Pick a spot near the center of the hull in front or behind the keel and use some glop that is not permanent.

It was a Heathkit flasher type and I think I still have the calibration pipe I built. Offers???

 

[Kenneth K]

It was a Heathkit flasher type and I think I still have the calibration pipe I built.

Heathkit? Wow, what a blast from the past. I know I built something of theirs once, long ago, but damned if I can remember what it was.

What can you build from Heathkit today? How about an AM radio. Only $150. And you get to put it together yourself.

Explorer Jr™: TRF AM radio receiver (no-solder kit) - black case - GR-150-BK | heathkit.com

shop.heathkit.com

 

[KS Dave]

Wow. Heathkit. Reminds me of looking in my Dad's old Popular Mechanics magazines when I was a kid.

As a follow-up, regarding my old (presumably) non-working transducers. Is it "safer" to leave the old transducer in there or put the designated plug in?

Are the old transducers capable of being tested and/or interfaced with anything else other than the stock instruments that were on the boat? I'm geeky enough to even try dabbling with OpenCPN and Arduino stuff if I can confirm they transducers themselves work. Anyone here done that?

 

[c.gustafson]

I've sailed on Lake Perry for 12+ years. I strongly recommend having a depth gauge. Even at regular pool level, there are some shallow spots in areas that you would not expect. Moreover, the water level in Lake Perry can vary quite a bit depending on precipitation levels and how much water the Corps of Engineers is letting out of the dam. It's a pain in the @#$ to run aground and have to get pulled out of the mud.

 

[KS Dave]

So, it turns out my depth and speed transducers are NOT dead and seem to work. I've decided to install a new head unit that will read both on one screen and I'm going to sell the Dragonfly. Why replace what ain't broke?

That being said, I have my Windex in-hand and I have found a sucker volunteer willing to climb my mast to install it, replace my mast-head light, and replace my steaming light. On to my question...

The Windex has instructions for adjusting the angle the tabs are spread apart. How do I know what to choose, here? The instructions also say: "The 3 different angles could represent, for heavy displacement cruising yachts 65°, cruising yachts in general 60°, and high-pointing racing yachts 55°".

Do my poor sailing abilities and crummy sails have any effect on how I should adjust this for my windward performance? Is 60° the right choice for me? Or do I set it at 65° and adjust it in later if I find I can point better?

(I'll mention I've only sailed her twice, so I don't know how well I point)

 

[william.haas]

Adjust to how well you point at a given apparent wind angle. Given the comment on your sails I would select 65 degrees.

 

[Jerry VB]

It is a (crude) indicator; it doesn't limit your pointing ability at all. It indicates the apparent wind angle regardless of where the tabs are set.

Set it to 60 degrees and don't stress about it. If you can point higher than 60 degrees, it will make you feel good. If not, <shrug>.

 

[cdh4088]

I am in the same situation for lake sailing. The old instruments are unusable, and I was wanting speed and depth.
Does anyone have experience with clipper marine instruments? The price is attractive:
clipper marine duet

 

[Bepi]

I installed a Hawkeye depth finder which included the transducer. It can be glued to the inside of the hull or can be mounted low the on the stern outside with a clip. I mounted mine in the bow with some epoxy and it works well. Shop around.

DepthTrax 2B | Boat Mount Depth Finder

The DepthTrax® 2B employs advanced algorithmic programming in its SONAR technology, offering precise depth measurements that are refreshed four times per second, up to a depth of 600 feet. With the availability in both a combination transom-mount / glue-in-hull or a thru-hull transducer, it's...

hawkeyeelectronics.com

 

[Teranodon]

I still use the Windex most. I can do with only that if I can see where I'm going.

Unlike your 38-footer, Christian, the Ericson 34 has the peculiar property that the helmsman's head, the mast head and the Sun are always aligned. Hence a wind instrument makes sense. I have my display mounted on the cockpit bulkhead, so everyone can see how close we are to gybing. I think that I would find that useful, even on a lake. But: to each his own, as always.