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MK1 keel bolts and rudder

james henry

Junior Member
Hello All.

I'm new here on the list, and new owner of a 1968 E23 MK1 (#17).
I have to replace all the keel bolts and nuts. One nut, while I was picking at it, just fell apart like a dirtclod!:esad: I need to find out how they are attached to the keel (threaded into the keel or through bolts with nuts on both sides or what?). Cast iron? Lead? Any dimensions? The boat has to be hauled and at $80 a day I want to be ready and know what I'm up against.
Also the rudder just bangs around in the tube. I'd like to find out whats in that tube ( stuffing gland, cutlass bearing, sleeve, rubber hose?). Looks
like a thrust washer under the rudderhead. So I think if I take the head off the rudder will go to the bottom. Thats the main reason I'm hauling her.
The rest of the boat is not that bad though. Still solid.
Can anybody give me some clues here or give me some directions to info:confused:.

Thank you in advance, James
E23 MK1 "ADAGIO"
L.A.Harbor
 

Mark F

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hi James, welcome.

My 1968 e23 mk1 had a sloppy rudder post and water would come up around the post and onto the cockpit sole occasionally. I wrapped a line around the bottom of the rudder to hold it in place then removed the tiller head. I unscrewed the bronze bearing (large washer), cut a piece of thick stiff rubber gasket material to fit REAL tight around the post then bolted the bearing back down over that. It tightened up the top of the rudder post and I never had water come through it again (I was surprised). Though the rudder was less sloppy I still had rudder clunk. When I hauled the boat to paint the bottom I dropped the rudder and put a (don't laugh) piece of a PVC sink drain tailpiece (with a shoulder) around the shaft, shoved the post back up and bolted the tiller head back on. I had to do a bunch of trial fitting to get it right and ended up with about 1/3 of the circumference of the PVC tube. Once done my rudder post was nice and snug. I thought it would be a somewhat temporary fix but after 3 years of a lot of sailing it didn't change. If you look real hard in this photo you can see the shoulder of the PVC tube in between the rudder and the hull.
 

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sleather

Sustaining Member
Hang in there!

Hello All.
I'm new here on the list, and new owner of a 1968 E23 MK(#17).
I have to replace all the keel bolts and nuts. One nut, while I was picking at it, just fell apart like a dirtclod! I need to find out how they are attached to the keel (threaded into the keel or through bolts with nuts on both sides or what?). Cast iron? Lead? Any dimensions? The boat has to be hauled and at $80 a day I want to be ready and know what I'm up against.

James, WELCOME! and hang in there! I'm a K/CB MK II guy, so I'm unfamiliar w/ the keel. I thought Mark would have addressed that also. For now we'll "keep the post alive", somebody will respond!
 

TheArch

New Member
Opportunity knocks as does your rudder

James I just did my rudder job 2 weeks ago. I have a 1983 E35 but here may be some tit bits of help for you.

First ensure that the yard blocks your boat high enough to be able to drop the post without another lift or having to dig; i.e if you can dig at all. My boat has a metal lower bearing which was impossible to find so it took an extra day plus some to machine a new bearing. While the rudder is out is a great time to pull that shaft to inspect that cutlass bearing. Also take a good look at the stern tube and shaft seal. I was able to ward off an impending disaster with my dripless seal during one of my somber moments steering up at the hull. With the shaft out you may want to insert that line cutter you always wanted; I did. Do all you can while you are up and out.

The rudder job is a great opportunity not a burden so take my advise and use it wisely.
Arch
 

james henry

Junior Member
Thanks to all

Well I got some pretty good info. It looks like from Mark that the rudder assembly is straight forward enough on these boats. Should be no problem. Any sleeving or bearing construction I can do on my lathe.
It seems that the keel is bolted through a flange (similer to the columbias)
5-bolts on each side. And the vote is that the keel is cast iron. I doubt that the bolts are threaed through the flange, so I should be able to just "wipe off" the crumbled nuts (heh), and just knock out the bolts one at a time.
The P.O. had fiberglassed around the keel/flange area. I guess it WAS leaking pretty bad..but not now. So the plan is to grind off enough of glass to remove the bolts, replace and glass over them again. Without
disturbing the rest of the "patch".

Question: seeing how the keel is iron, what material? Bronze, 316, Iron?
Of course the nuts and washers will be same material.
Like I said before. I'm not hauling until Christmas week. So I'm still collecting info.

Thanks for the help,
James H...."ADAGIO"
L.A. Harbor.
 

rbonilla

"don't tread on me" member XVXIIIII
James...are you planning on seperating the keel from the hull?...i had one or two "bad" bolts on the old e23 i am workin' on...but, after having the boat hang in the straps for a week (in a shop) and pushing back and forth on the jeel w/no apparent movement....we fig it was stable and we shouldn't worry bout anythig...until we see evidence of the keel seperating from the hul.....i just glassed and patched up the keel to hull area...i will smoth it out and make it "l@@k nice"......but, i figed messig w/any keel bolts would open up a "can of worms"...unless there was a bigger, underlying issue......good luck !!...richard / colorado :egrin:




Well I got some pretty good info. It looks like from Mark that the rudder assembly is straight forward enough on these boats. Should be no problem. Any sleeving or bearing construction I can do on my lathe.
It seems that the keel is bolted through a flange (similer to the columbias)
5-bolts on each side. And the vote is that the keel is cast iron. I doubt that the bolts are threaed through the flange, so I should be able to just "wipe off" the crumbled nuts (heh), and just knock out the bolts one at a time.
The P.O. had fiberglassed around the keel/flange area. I guess it WAS leaking pretty bad..but not now. So the plan is to grind off enough of glass to remove the bolts, replace and glass over them again. Without
disturbing the rest of the "patch".

Question: seeing how the keel is iron, what material? Bronze, 316, Iron?
Of course the nuts and washers will be same material.
Like I said before. I'm not hauling until Christmas week. So I'm still collecting info.

Thanks for the help,
James H...."ADAGIO"
L.A. Harbor.
 

james henry

Junior Member
Thanks Richard:

Sounds like what was done to the keel flange to hull seam. I'm not planing on seperating the keel (hopfully). The keel is being held on pretty good, I guess. No leaking to mention. So I'm hopeing to replace one bolt at a time and leave the keel in place. The reason for replacement being the nuts on the bolts pretty much just crumble in your hand. And the first sign of side forces on the keel might seperate it for me. I just hope the bolts are not threaded through the flange. I'll post on the progress when it gets hauled...and we'll ALL know the final word on these early boats.


J. Henry
e23mk1 "ADAGIO"
L.A.Harbor
 

chasfell

New Member
keel bolt pictures

James:

We took some pictures for you under our E23 yesterday, and will forward as soon as possible.

Charlie and Porter Fell
 
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