Mounting a rudder position sensor - E32-3

[Mindscape]

I'm in the process of installing a Raymarine S1 (the ST4000 replacement) autopilot. I'm looking for advice, pictures and thoughts on how to best install the rudder position sensor. I searched and found some info, but thought I'd see if anyone had some more info. As always thanks for your help!

 

[Emondi]

Have you mounted it?

Hi Frank... I am in the process of trying to do the same thing. I have the sensor and debating how to mount it. Also, where have you located your Raymarine autohelp compass?

 

[Mindscape]

Haven't Started

If all goes according to plan I'm starting this project this weekend. I believe Geoff and a couple of the other guys have built a bracket to mount the sensor too. Once I get mine mounted I'll try to take some pics and post them.
As for the compass I'm probably going to mount it in the locker under the seat for the dinette, just to port of the center line.

 

[Geoff Johnson]

My Simrad sensor was mounted to the small bulkhead at the end of the quarterberth and attached by a rod to a fitting installed on the quadrant. I don't have a dedicated lever arm (doesn't seem like there would be room on the rudder post). It works well; the arm is sufficiently tucked under the cockpit to avoid being dislodged by items in the lazarette. My compass is mounted on a shelf built under the settee next to the mast (port side). I ran the wires through the bilge, tied to the bilge pump hoses.

 

[Howard Keiper]

It may be that you don't need a rudder position sensor at all in a sailboat. You should call RayMarine and ask a technician.
RayMarine has, by far, the easiest to reach, most competent tech support organization I've ever worked with.
howard

 

[Geoff Johnson]

Some don't but if it came with one, you probably need it. My linkage arm fell off once and the wheel started to turn stop to stop. It was a little disconcerting because I had no idea what the problem was.

 

[jkenan]

I have an ST4000+ on an E29. The quadrant is at an angle to the floor. I used a piece of Aluminum bar bent at 90-degrees to start, so that the vertical side could be mounted (at first, temporarily with a clamp) next to quadrant on the wall inside the quadrant compartment, and the sensor could be mounted on the horizontal shelf. Next, I bent the shelf upward to match the angle of the QUADRANT (not sensor, as I previously posted), and finally, repositioned the aluminum bracket so the whole assembly was in the right postion not to interfere with the movement of the quadrant, the sensor was in the right position relative to the quadrant (including the pin mounted to the quadrant receiving the sensor rod) and the connecting rod was in an ideal position to be shortened or lenghthened to tweak the sensor arm's angle to the quadrant. To mount the rod to the Quadrant using the pin, I used two aluminum bars cut so one would fit snugly inside the quadrant sides, and the other would be underneath the quadrant, then the two bars were fastened together with #10 machine screws (this allowed for a low-profile design which did not require me to drill into the quadrant itself). Finally, the pin which receives the sensor rod was mounted to these plates, again with #10's. Trick is to get this quadrant bracket in the right position relative to the end of the sensor arm.

Works perfectly, and relatively simple design. Hope this helps.

 

[Al Emondi]

Interesting discussion and I am sure a million different ways. I do believe I need a rudder sensor because the steering still is a little squirrelly. When steering by compass, I get this slight wobble in the steering. I did talk to Raymarine and asked them what the problem might be and their first question was if I have a rudder sensor installed. I said “No” they said “Go do it”. So…here we are. Also, currently, the fluxgate compass I have behind the bulkhead above the sink beside the dishes compartment. Not the best place I am sure. I am thinking of mounting it under the “V” berth on the centerline. There is an access compartment there under the two drawers. Ericson had preinstalled a corrugated tube for future wiring that leads all the way back to the circuit breaker panel, so it shouldn’t be too hard to fish the wires.

 

[newgringo]

Timely Info! My Raymarine S1 is in shipping now for install in our 32-3 next week, by me. Mounting the Rudder Sensor does seem to be the most daunting of the install process. Any chance of you guys sending me a picture of just how you did this part of the job? My email is griggs@centurytel.net.
Also, I'm really not sure where to locate the Control Unit. Where did you guys mount yours? My handiest spot is on the pedestal but I would be reaching thru the wheel to puch buttons and I don't think that is a good idea (getting wapped by a slewing wheel might hurt).
Thanks Bunches - Jerry

 

[evm]

why not use it

I installed an angle reference on my E39. Just takes time.

As for need it or not. Well you really do not need it. The S1 or 4000 will work just fine without it. However with one installed you will find less dither in steering. It will hold the course better as wind and wave try to have their way.

E

 

[Al Emondi]

I'm banking on the aft quarterbunk bulkhead

Currently I am in the process of drying out a few wet spots in the cabin sole after I found the emergency tiller mount was leaking. Not too much damage and no delamination, so I am lucky I found it now. So, the rudder sensor is on hold until the moisture content drops a bit and I can remount the rudder. But after reading the posts and looking around down there, I think the aft bulkhead on the quarter bunk is making a lot of sense to me.

 

[JMCronan]

Autopilot Power Req?

I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but as long as there is an active
autopilot discussion going on I thought I would ask.

I also own a 32-300. I am looking at different autopilot configurations.
For those who already have a below deck autopilot installed;
what are the power requirements? I have the two 12v house batts under
the quarterberth. Will I need additional power or will those run the
pilot for a day sail?. I understand that weather conditions will have an affect. But in general, how long can you run the autopilot without recharging?

Thanks.

 

[Geoff Johnson]

As I recall my Simrad (below deck) requires about 2 to 3 amps per hour.

 

[JMCronan]

Thanks for the reply. I have been reading up on the manufacturer
info about power reqd. But I just wanted to know if the manufacturer
numbers held up when the autopilots were employed by the end user.

 

[newgringo]

The Rudder Sensor is finially installed in our E32-3! It was indeed the most challenging part of the S1 Wheel Pilot install job. For anyone who is planning on doing this I highly recommend taking a look at another similiar boat with one in it to see just how the Sensor was installed. Mine turned out to be quite a geometry problem. It had to be mounted rotated about 12 degrees from directly sideways in order for the Sensor arm to clear everything. I will gladly send pictures if anyone wants to know more. The steps I followed were as follows:
1. Measure Rudder travel = +-65 deg. Modify Rudder stops to limit travel to +- 55 deg. Another story.
2. Diagram and measure install location on stbd side of Rudder stock. make scale model drawings for a Sensor mounting for arm to clear both Rudder stock and quarter berth slide in wall.
3. Determine Rudder Sensor Ball Rod End location and Sensor Ball Rod length. The Ball Rod End ended up at 4 3/4 inch (5 1/2 inch is optimal to match Sensor) from Rudder post centerline and Rod length was 5 3/16 inch ball to ball. This is all mostly a trial and error so everything clears.
4. Make mounting bar from 1/4 in X 1 1/2 in AL bar and bend 90 deg to fasten to quarter berth rear bulkhead. Make 1/8 in bent plate to fasten to bar and mount the Sensor. Clamp in temporary position and make tweaks for good operation.
All in all this was a good 2 day project and 3 or 4 trips to the boat. It is really important that the Sensor angular travel be well within the maximun allowed (+- 60 deg). For geometry reason mine ended up being +-45 deg of Sensor travel corresponding to the +- 55 deg of Rudder travel. Compromises. And now that all The Raymarine Wheel Pilots are delivered with Rudder Sensors this project may present itself more often. I wish anyone else doing this good fortune - it's tricky buggar!

 

[jsingle]

New S1 from old S4000 Raymarine autopilot

The Rudder Sensor is finially installed in our E32-3! It was indeed the most challenging part of the S1 Wheel Pilot install job. For anyone who is planning on doing this I highly recommend taking a look at another similiar boat with one in it to see just how the Sensor was installed. Mine turned out to be quite a geometry problem. It had to be mounted rotated about 12 degrees from directly sideways in order for the Sensor arm to clear everything. I will gladly send pictures if anyone wants to know more. The steps I followed were as follows:
1. Measure Rudder travel = +-65 deg. Modify Rudder stops to limit travel to +- 55 deg. Another story.
2. Diagram and measure install location on stbd side of Rudder stock. make scale model drawings for a Sensor mounting for arm to clear both Rudder stock and quarter berth slide in wall.
3. Determine Rudder Sensor Ball Rod End location and Sensor Ball Rod length. The Ball Rod End ended up at 4 3/4 inch (5 1/2 inch is optimal to match Sensor) from Rudder post centerline and Rod length was 5 3/16 inch ball to ball. This is all mostly a trial and error so everything clears.
4. Make mounting bar from 1/4 in X 1 1/2 in AL bar and bend 90 deg to fasten to quarter berth rear bulkhead. Make 1/8 in bent plate to fasten to bar and mount the Sensor. Clamp in temporary position and make tweaks for good operation.
All in all this was a good 2 day project and 3 or 4 trips to the boat. It is really important that the Sensor angular travel be well within the maximun allowed (+- 60 deg). For geometry reason mine ended up being +-45 deg of Sensor travel corresponding to the +- 55 deg of Rudder travel. Compromises. And now that all The Raymarine Wheel Pilots are delivered with Rudder Sensors this project may present itself more often. I wish anyone else doing this good fortune - it's tricky buggar!

I got blindsided by Raymarine on this one but in reality this is a good value compared to other options. I too am trying to find a way of installing the Rudder sensor ... if you have photos showing the installed sensor it would be a big boost just to help getting started.

We are having to do this to an old (1976) E32-2 Hull 510. Not sure if you could post pictures or email to me at jsingle@psoffices.com. I would offer to create a web site for viewing photos if you would like.

 

[bigtyme805]

I wish I would have saw this post earlier. I bought the S1 pilot for my 1985 30+ from a Raymarine Dealer I had them install it, cost was 1,000 for install and you will see why. It took them 2 days. Get this after everything the rudder feedback was installed it was a bad unit. They had to replace it. Now more complicated issue if you install this yourself and the rudder feedback does not work it may not be covered under warranty because many people screw these up. I guess they can be installed wrong and completely ruin the unit.

I will tell you they installed the unit on my port side above my controls so easy to get to and see, unless you have room on your nav station on your edson put it there. That is where raymarine would prefer it. The other part is in my aft berth on bulkhead, good spot. The guy who installed it weighed 265 and he had a devil of time in my port side locker that is why I did not install it myself. Getting that rudder feedback unit on in closed quarters is hell. This guy had all sorts of problems, his only 2nd install. He said not too many people want to pay for the install.

If I get a chance to take some pics I will. I know this will help everyone. On a better note this device is great no noise and steers the boat great. You will be very happy. The rudder feedback really keeps her on solid course even in heavy seas. I use mine all time.