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Move Engine to Repair Transmission?

Geordie

Boadicea Ericson 32-3
I just starting having problems with our Hurth transmission on our 1989 Ericson 32-3 (popping out of gear at cruising RPM). Tranny fluid has gone to the lab, but looks like a rebuild is required. The mechanic says he'll need to loosen/remove rear engine mounts to lift engine a few inches to be able to remove transmission and replace rebuilt unit. Since he originally thought the entire engine would have to be moved (fuel lines etc removed, mounts undone etc), this seems like better news. However, my question is, has anyone had similar transmission work done? Is it necesarry to move the engine in this way? Any other concerns or cautionary tales?

Its a Universal 23 HP.

Thanks.
 

Dan Callen

Contributing Member III
Moving Engine

Our mechanic lifted the engine to slide the shaft forward to install a new cutless bearing......saved alot of time compared to removing the rudder,etc.
Sounds to me like a good way to get the tranny out and save a lot of labor. Good luck! Dan Callen Ericson 32-3 Andiamo
 

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
I lifted the rear end of the engine slightly using scissors jack and a come-along attached to a 2X4 placed across the companion way. I used 2 or 3 small pieces of 2X4 blocks under the motor mounts to steady it, IIRC. Put a hose clamp around the propshaft so you don't accidentally slide it out (you could sink the boat). Remove the coupling, slide the shaft aftward and pull the shift linkage and the heat exchanger. Then you can pull the trans out. You only need to lift the engine 4-5". Trans is not heavy. These trannys are apparently not simple to rebuild. Others have had less than successful attempts. I replaced ours with a ZF-10 (updated Hurth HW 100). There is an old thread about it here somewhere. Try a search for "Hurth" or "ZF."
 

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
Geordie,

Have you tried to adjust the linkage? That could cause it to pop out of gear, if mal-adjusted (like me!).
 

Akavishon

Member III
my turn

My tranny (HBW-50) was slipping intermittently since the beginning of this season, and finally completely gave up its forward gear yesterday (July 4th). I have checked the shift cable play and it looks ok, though I'd like to double-check it this weekend, just to be 150% sure it's nothing as trivial. Alas, if it's what I think it is, there will be two options on the table:
(a) pull the tranny, rebuild, put back in
(b) pull the tranny, buy a new ZF10M, put back in

Labor costs seems to be pretty close for both options (I don't have time to DIY on this one), so it comes down to the cost of rebuilding (unknown) vs cost of new ZF10M (~$1200).

Have you guys rebuilt your trannys? What should one expect to pay for a rebuild job?

TIA, Zoran
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
My tranny specialist said he refuses to rebuild the Hurth 50s as there is a 50/50 chance it will fail again quickly--sometimes they last and other times not with no way to predict in advance. He sold me a new Twin Disc which fit nicely, total cost of tranny and labour (with me helping a bit) was $1,700 three years ago. The new tranny has worked fine. I would definitely go for new rather than rebuild.

Frank
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
You don't happen to have a photo of the finished installation of that Twin Disc transmission and the model number do you?

Did you have to replace the bell housing?
 

Rick R.

Contributing Partner
Hurth woes revisited

We went through hell with ours recently.

Motor had to be removed to get the sucker out. Had it rebuilt (I told the yard not to rebuild if the cost was going to be more than $800 since new tranny is only $1200).

They rebuilt it anyway (to the total cost of around $2k...can you say angry Adrmiral)?

Ten hours running after the rebuild, it was trashed. Thank God the yard put a brand new ZF10 in for FREE!

My advice, (like so many other here)? After learning the hard way, definately buy a new one!
Rick
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Mark,

I don't have any pictures of the installation, and won't be able to get one for a while, but it was fairly straight forward. We didn't have to move the engine or replace the bell housing. The Twin Disc MG340 new replacement tranny fit nicely into the available space (about 1" difference if I recall, which we could accommodate). The engine needed alignment afterwards, but it has run fine since then.
Although I had the tranny specialist do the install with a bit of help from me, I'm confident that I could have done it myself. There was nothing unusual about replacing it, no modifications needed as I've often heard.

Frank
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
Did you have to re-route the shift cable to the other side? The MG340 looks like it has the shift lever on the opposite side of the transmission housing than the HBW50.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Mark, it's been a while since we did this, but I think you are right that the shift lever is on the other side on the new transmission. But this was no big deal, and certainly not a reason to avoid buying this transmission. I replaced both the throttle and gear shift cable anyway, as they were a bit older and not run the way I thought would be best. I re-routed them and they work fine.

Frank
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
Hansen Marine in Marblehead, MA. They did mine and I couldn't be happier. Can't remember the cost but it wasn't bad, IIRC. Pull the trans and take it to them. RT
 

e38sailorman

Member II
The tranny in my E38 crapped out in 09, don't remember the exact cost but the new was not way out of line compared to a rebuild, my mechanic said if you plan on keeping the boat for any period of time go new, so I did.

Marc
E38 WaveWalker
Gig Harbor Wa
 

Akavishon

Member III
I disconnected the shift cable and checked the tranny again. Yup, definitely lost its forward gear :esad:

I'll be ordering a new ZF10 (most like from marinepartsexpress.com) first thing tomorrow.
Or maybe a Twin Disc MG-340?? Any thoughts on that?

I've searched around the site and it seems people like to replace the damper plate and engine mounts while the tranny is being serviced. Any recommendations on make/model/source for either?

I'll have my local yard do all the work, but like to have all my parts ready, and "look over their shoulders" ...

TIA, Zoran
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I disconnected the shift cable and checked the tranny again. Yup, definitely lost its forward gear :esad:

I'll be ordering a new ZF10 (most like from marinepartsexpress.com) first thing tomorrow.
Or maybe a Twin Disc MG-340?? Any thoughts on that?

I've searched around the site and it seems people like to replace the damper plate and engine mounts while the tranny is being serviced. Any recommendations on make/model/source for either?

I'll have my local yard do all the work, but like to have all my parts ready, and "look over their shoulders" ...

TIA, Zoran

Having never (yet!) had to research this for our boat, I only have a couple of observations after looking at the TwinDisc model on-line. Will the top mount dip stick be accessable around your heat exchanger and how does the length conpare to the present trans?
http://www.twindisc.com/MarineProducts/MarineTransSeries_mg_340.html
http://www.twindisc.com/Downloads/pdfs/marine_pdfs/MARINE_TRANSMISSIONS/MG340.pdf

http://www.marinepartsexpress.com/prodbullzf07/ZF_10_M.pdf

Loren

ps: how many hours on the original trans/engine?
 
Last edited:

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
Zoran,

Get your damper plate from the same source as the trans. Check prices at Mer marine (Seattle) and Hansen Marine (east coast) as well as the site you listed. These places may have motor mounts, too.

I don't know anything about the twin disc trans, but it is worth looking into all possibilities before a sizable project like this. Good luck!
 

Akavishon

Member III
ps: how many hours on the original trans/engine?

Loren, engine has <500 (since last rebuild), as for the tranny - no idea. I've have owned the boat since 2007 and typically use the engine very sparingly (even prefer to sail on/off my mooring whenever I can :rolleyes:). I did change the tranny fluid regularly.

Zoran,

Get your damper plate from the same source as the trans. Check prices at Mer marine (Seattle) and Hansen Marine (east coast) as well as the site you listed. These places may have motor mounts, too.

I don't know anything about the twin disc trans, but it is worth looking into all possibilities before a sizable project like this. Good luck!

Keith, thanks - I've talked to Bob Hansen at Hansen Marine, he was very friendly and helpful, told me everything I needed to know (though, nothing really new that I had not already seen/read on EY.org :nerd:). Turns out the rebuild job is approx. $600 for labor and $400 for parts, do the math and compare to a new ZF10M (~$1200). On top of that is a new damper plate (<$400) and set of engine mounts (<$100), if needed.

Hansen is in Marblehead, a short drive north of Boston, and he has everything in stock = pretty convenient (no shipping/wait). Now I just need to chase down my local yard boys and get onto their calendar ...:unsure:

Oh, and Bob did talk about how vitally important it is to correctly adjust the shift cable for neutral position, otherwise the ZF10M may wear out prematurely as it could "grind" inside even in neutral. He said this is described in detail in the owner's manual.

Zoran
 

lindaloo

Member II
Name of that tranny specialist

Hey Frank, do you have the name of that tranny specialist who did your Twin Disc install ?
I'm assuming he's in Nanaimo.

Thanks

Rob
 
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